Topic: [experimental tribe] Hebrews

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carli2
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Pry about Widelands
 Posted at: 2023-08-28, 22:33 UTC+2.0

Based off a late-night idea I started creating a new experimental tribe: Hebrews. Here are the features:
- they can't grow trees. They can either steal trees from their neighbours or buy them for gold
- they have a 4-step wheat economy with wheat, wheat grain (made in the threshing floor), flour (from the mill) and bread (made from flour, water and olive oil)
- they have a complex textile industry with shepherds (creating lots of sheeps on the landscape and shearing them), wool, yarn and cloth (where a cloth is very preacious since you need a lot of yarn)
- they grow vine only on rock (which looks really cool!)
- they can create Massada, a big military castle, on rocks (so they can conquery mountain ranges)
- soldiers are trained from tunica (made from lots of cloth) and a slingshot
- they pay gold for evasion (but their evasion is good!)
- their attack is slingshot -> dagger -> shord sword
- they can improve their health points by wearing religious clothes like Tallit, Tephelin and Tallit Katan (all made with Ziziot which they have to braid from yarn)

Current TODO:
- finish the economy (some military sites are missing and the military training)
- find awesome building graphics (in the moment everything is copied)
- somehow create own bob graphics (afaik the blender plugin is broken in the moment)
- help texts

You can try the WIP on github:
https://github.com/carli2/widelands/tree/hebrews

Edited: 2023-08-28, 22:34 UTC+2.0
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tothxa
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Joined: 2021-03-24, 12:44 UTC+1.0
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 Posted at: 2023-08-29, 13:23 UTC+2.0

carli2 wrote:

  • somehow create own bob graphics (afaik the blender plugin is broken in the moment)

I was able to make the scripts work in blender 2.79, but you can do most things without them. I also made standalone versions of the ones that would be hard manually: player colours and rotation (also for scripted rendering of all rotations)

Later blender dropped the rendering engine that Widelands models used, so all lighting and shadow settings are wrong, and you have to convert textures, but at least they have a script for that.

You can try the WIP on github: https://github.com/carli2/widelands/tree/hebrews

Have you considered making it an add-on for easier development and testing? Even if you need code changes, master already has some that were specifically made to allow the Europeans tribe of @MarkMcWire to be an add-on instead of a fork, so it should be possible to get them in master.

Edited: 2023-08-29, 13:25 UTC+2.0
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carli2
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Pry about Widelands
 Posted at: 2023-08-29, 16:31 UTC+2.0

Hi tothxa,

tothxa wrote:

carli2 wrote:

  • somehow create own bob graphics (afaik the blender plugin is broken in the moment)

I was able to make the scripts work in blender 2.79, but you can do most things without them. I also made standalone versions of the ones that would be hard manually: player colours and rotation (also for scripted rendering of all rotations) Are there also some base files like for bobs in some repos?

Later blender dropped the rendering engine that Widelands models used, so all lighting and shadow settings are wrong, and you have to convert textures, but at least they have a script for that.

You can try the WIP on github: https://github.com/carli2/widelands/tree/hebrews

Have you considered making it an add-on for easier development and testing? Even if you need code changes, master already has some that were specifically made to allow the Europeans tribe of @MarkMcWire to be an add-on instead of a fork, so it should be possible to get them in master.

I will do that as soon as it reached a playable state (with ships and training)

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2023-08-29, 17:02 UTC+2.0

as promised on the phone
here is the excel sheet for tribe balancing

Attachment: application/x-zip-compressed
Soldiers.zip (37.9 KB)
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tothxa
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 Posted at: 2023-08-29, 17:58 UTC+2.0

Are there also some base files like for bobs in some repos?

Yes, on launchpad:

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carli2
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Pry about Widelands
 Posted at: 2026-02-13, 01:32 UTC+1.0

First screenshot of the hebrews tribe!

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carli2
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Pry about Widelands
 Posted at: 2026-02-13, 01:33 UTC+1.0

First screenshot of the hebrews tribe!

Attachment: image/jpeg
hebräer.jpg
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carli2
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Pry about Widelands
 Posted at: 2026-02-13, 16:46 UTC+1.0

I finished the base implementation of the tribe

You can checkout the fork under: https://github.com/carli2/widelands/tree/hebrews

Balancing questions:

  • Hebrew's rookies are ~1/2 that strong as other rookies. But they are also very cheap: 1 rock + a lots of wool and branches. (Slingshot carrier)
  • Hebrews strongest heros have very high evasion. (4 Max. The first evasion is free, level 2-4 need gold)
  • They can easily pin down the highest empire/barbarians with a bit of luck. They are ~50-100% stronger than other soldiers at their max level - but they are extra costly. You need 1 copper and 5 gold. You have to trade 2 gold for 1 wood (because hebrews never have their own wood) and additionally beat 1 leaf gold and equip them with a menorah.

Question: Is it valid to publish such an imbalanced tribe? (weak in the beginning, strong in the late game)? Or should I rebalance according to some rules?

Some remarks:

  • Hebrews are very mountain-centered. They can not expand well on plane ground (only small military tents) but have a strong rock-bound castle which gives them very good mountain control
  • Also some production buildings only work on rock: vineyard and threshing floow, as well as scouts hut
  • Hebrews must be careful with wood because they can not regrow it. They can harvest branches from trees but once you cut the trees down you have a problem
  • If you need wood, you can trade 2 gold for 1 wood via a building or use the builtin market to trade with other players. Wood is crucial to do high-tier soldier training
  • Hebrews are shepherds. You need a lot of space to grow sheep, harvest their wool or to butcher them
  • Instead of one worker per job, you have to train your citizens from carrier -> student -> rabbi. Rabbis do training jobs and a butchery must also be observed by a rabbi. To train Rabbis you need 3 gold.
  • Making bread is very complicated. You have to make olive oil in a mill
  • Hebrews need a lot of water. Every sheep drinks water, Olive plants need water and so on

So effectively you need a lot of space: You must occupy both land and mountains to fully unravel your potential.

Edited: 2026-02-13, 16:49 UTC+1.0
Attachment: image/jpeg
Hebräer-2.jpg
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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2026-02-13, 20:20 UTC+1.0

Question: Is it valid to publish such an imbalanced tribe? […] Or should I rebalance according to some rules?

For an add-on, not being balanced is perfectly fine. Balancing a tribe against the other tribes is a lot of work, even more so the more tribes there already are, and it's more of an ongoing refinement process rather than a one-time effort.

(weak in the beginning, strong in the late game)?

That does not imply imbalance actually, every tribe has some game stages where they are stronger and others where they are weaker. Atlanteans, Frisians, and Amazons are all advantaged in the later game; Barbarians are strongest in the early game and the Empire is a middle game tribe. Balancing is more about how much comparative strength two tribes can gain from optimally utilising the same quantity of available resources.

From your PR:
Graphics style: What does this mean to the hebrew's tribe I am currently developing? Should I create a second immovable "pond2" and "vinegrape2" to keep the graphics style of my tribe?

Either this, or you can replace the existing ponds and grapes with your add-on units. That's up to you as the add-on designer :)

Edited: 2026-02-13, 20:20 UTC+1.0
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carli2
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Pry about Widelands
 Posted at: 2026-02-14, 01:49 UTC+1.0

From your PR:
Graphics style: What does this mean to the hebrew's tribe I am currently developing? Should I create a second immovable "pond2" and "vinegrape2" to keep the graphics style of my tribe?

Either this, or you can replace the existing ponds and grapes with your add-on units. That's up to you as the add-on designer :)

what does "addon" exactly mean? Does widelands have plugins? I'd like to get the tribe production-ripe to join the main branch. I know it's a lot of work but I think it's worth it. I think the theme romans vs hebrews fits well into the gameplay.

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