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Topic: Naval Tournament 2023

Teayo
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Joined: 2015-03-09, 21:11
Posts: 152
OS: Windows 11 Home 64-bit
Version: 1.2 from Juni (06) 2023
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Location: Deutschland
Posted at: 2023-11-13, 11:02

@hessenfarmer,
Zusammenhalt der Community, es gibt keine Probleme. Geschlossenheit zeigen.
Zwischenfälle werden verschleiert und im Hintergrund per Privatnachrichten geklärt und gelöst.
Und the-x bleibt ein Teil von uns !


Community cohesion, there are no problems. Show unity.
Incidents are concealed and clarified and resolved in the background via private messages.
And the-x stay as a part of us !

Edited: 2023-11-13, 11:02

Das Imperium schlägt zurück ! TY

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the-x
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Joined: 2019-01-19, 12:23
Posts: 967
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Posted at: 2023-11-13, 11:19

Also, ich bin gerne bereit mich zu entschuldigen. Lasst uns mal auf den Kern des Problems schauen, das Problem ist doch, dass nach einem Spiel mit worldsavior meist ein Eindruck verbleibt, der Eindruck ausgetrickst worden zu sein. Ob es sich nun darum dreht ein Savegame zu laden, das man zwar im Forum veröffentlicht (fair), aber dennoch einen Spielstand hat, wo er Vorteile erzielt. Hätten wir ein faires Spiel wäre das gar nicht vorgekommen. Hinzu kommen irgendwelche Tricks mit Replays, die er mir ansatzweise sagte, die ich aber super unfair finde. Auf der anderen Seite zeige ich eine super hohe Kulanz, zum Beispiel Elefentenrennen wollte von 17:45 bis 20:00 unser Spiel pausieren, um abend essen zu können, obwohl wir erst eine Stunde vorher begonnen haben. Worldsavior nutzt dann auch so kleine Tricks (offiziell sind es ja keine Cheats) aus, wir haben beispielsweise zweimal in einem Angriff geladen, wo er wusste was die nächsten Schritte von mir sind. Das war schon immer so und das stört mich einfach, dass man nach dem Spiel das Gefühl hat ausgetrickst worden zu sein.

Es ist eigentlich falsch, dann noch den Spieler doppelt zu bestrafen, dem es nur um ein faires Spiel geht.

Mars wrote:

  • I remember several earlier public arguments between worldsavior and the-x

Da können sich nur beide entschuldigen. Und ich wünsche mir sehr, dass da auch von seiner Seite was kommt.

Making false pubkic accusations

Was ist beispielsweise mit seiner Anschildigung, ich hätte rage gequittet. Das ist a) unbewiesen und b) einfach falsch. Ich habe nicht gequittet, sondern die Verbindung wurde getrennt (worldsavior war der Host) und rage ist meines erachtens eine ziemlich hohe und falsche anschuldigung, zudem unbegründet.

while failing to deliver any proof

Habe doch genau begründet, was das Problem darstellt und zu dessen Lösung ich bereit bin und hoffe Worlssaviour auch


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blind3rdeye
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Joined: 2020-03-26, 07:47
Posts: 74
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Posted at: 2023-11-13, 11:36

Mars wrote:

  • I remember several earlier public arguments between worldsavior and the-x and I have enough of it. That needs to end.

I've been away for about 3 years, and this argument feels like exactly the same thing I was reading 3 years ago. It's ugly to see that kind of discussion here, but I also a bit amusing for me personally - seeing what seems like a volatile and heated argument somehow continue unchangingly for 3 years.

I do hope the-x can chill a bit though; because he clearly enjoys the game and is a top-tier competitive player. It would be sad for his sake if his over-competitive lashing-out after any loss causes him to miss out on the competition and wins he so craves. At least, that's my outsider point of view.


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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 03:10
Posts: 2095
OS: Linux
Version: Recent tournament version
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Location: Germany
Posted at: 2023-11-13, 12:41

Teayo wrote:

Die Buchholzpunkte Spalte in den Tabellen muss mal richtig formatiert werden, da stehen keine ganzen Zahlen sondern Formeln.
( https://www.widelands.org/forum/topic/5801/?page=1#post-40403 )

I disagree. Round 4 is not finished yet, so in "ranking after round 4", you dont have numbers everywhere yet. Sometimes it needs to be a sum of variables. Remember, Buchholz is just the sum of the points of the opponents. Round 5 is even more unfinished.


Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked

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kaputtnik
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Joined: 2013-02-18, 19:48
Posts: 2465
OS: Archlinux
Version: current master
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Location: Germany
Posted at: 2023-11-13, 14:00

In a community sometimes things goes wrong. Misunderstanding, probably caused by different languages, and disputes are totally normal in a community. As long they don't get worse it's all fine.

Fortunately we have less of those wrong things. And i agree with Teayo that the best place to solve such things are private messages. In this case the-x chooses the official forum to make his view of his game vs WorldSavior official.

I didn't watched the replay, or the used save game of this match (i believe hessenfarmer's conclusions). And i think i don't need to, because from my point of view it's all clear:

  1. the-x asked for the save game to continue the game https://www.widelands.org/forum/topic/5801/?page=23#post-41107
  2. WorldSavior provided the save game one post later https://www.widelands.org/forum/topic/5801/?page=23#post-41109
  3. the-x did not answer, so he accepted this save game
  4. the match ended on 2023-10-27 https://www.widelands.org/forum/topic/5826/?page=7#post-41126
  5. and on 2023-11-12, two weeks later, the-x argues about this match https://www.widelands.org/forum/topic/5801/?page=27#post-41252

I think 2 weeks is a long time to get aware that the used save game was maybe different than the accepted save game.

Personally i have no meaning about the Buchholz thing. But the style the-x acts needs some penalization, especially because we have such discussions only since he joined our community.


Fight simulator for Widelands:
https://wide-fighter.netlify.app/

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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 22:16
Posts: 2674
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Location: Bavaria
Posted at: 2023-11-13, 14:11

@Teayo
concealing and hiding misbehaviour of one person would just encourage this person to further continue their behaviour, which has lasted far to long for now.

the-x was proofed in cheating by lying in the tournament last year. He was unprepared multiple times to have the correct version this year. After the unfortunate problems in the first round with all the crashes, he claimed problems multiple times with loading savegames that were not in his favor, but nobody else had difficulties to load them with the correct version. So in terms of his records I am pretty sure he did try again to skip games that are unfavorable for him and as it did not work out it strongly seems he tried to figure out how he could manipulate us to change the thing in his favor by claiming accusations which are totally insubstantial from all what can be seen from the replays. As long as I will organise any tournament in widelands I will not tolerate this any further! In no way!
Therefore it is solely the decision of the-x whether he will remain part of the community, by changing his behaviour, or if he decides to leave or get left.

@the-x
just to be crystal clear:
my decision was not subject to discussion or any further accusations. It was taken to give you your last chance to stay in the tournament and to be allowed to play any further tournaments. And if this will go any further I might think of disabling your account here as well.


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Teayo
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Joined: 2015-03-09, 21:11
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OS: Windows 11 Home 64-bit
Version: 1.2 from Juni (06) 2023
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Location: Deutschland
Posted at: 2023-11-13, 18:19

https://www.widelands.org/forum/topic/5801/?page=28#post-41267
WorldSavior :

Sometimes it needs to be a sum of variables. Remember, Buchholz is just the sum of the points of the opponents. ...

Sorry, I didn't know that the incomplete formatting and display of the Buchholz points was caused by the fact that the round wasn't closed yet.

@kaputtnik, can you send me per private message some Links to Posts, to the earlier discussions with the-x, in other tournaments or whatever.

@hessenfarmer, no, I clarify such unfortunate incidents in private messages and my goal is also for the affected player or players to change their behavior and come to a solution.

For me it is only important if there are big changes in the tournament, like if the player tournament place at the end of the tournament is changed by this incident.


Das Imperium schlägt zurück ! TY

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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 22:16
Posts: 2674
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Location: Bavaria
Posted at: 2023-11-13, 22:31

Teayo wrote:

@hessenfarmer, no, I clarify such unfortunate incidents in private messages and my goal is also for the affected player or players to change their behavior and come to a solution.

For me it is only important if there are big changes in the tournament, like if the player tournament place at the end of the tournament is changed by this incident.

Whether there have been consequences on the tournament ranking or not is completely irrelevant, when it comes to the insult of accusing someone insubstantiated of cheating or any other misbehaviour. In fact in german law this is rated a crime as "defamation". And it is not the first time that such things happpened.. And they were nearly 100% caused by the-x. Normally I appreciate any atttempt to keep everybody on board but taking into account last years tournament events which started here my patience with the behaviour of the-x as a proven liar is completly used up. So you are fighting a lost cause. The-x is solely responsible for his actions and (wrong) accusations. It is him who causes the trouble and we won't accept that any longer.
So I am sorry to say that none of your public posts nor your PM convinced me from stepping back any bit from my ultimate and admittedly hard decision made.
Please accept that this decision is not subject to any negotiation in any case. Too much has summed up in the past years to change my mind.


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Nordfriese
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Joined: 2017-01-17, 17:07
Posts: 1979
OS: Debian Testing
Version: Latest master
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Posted at: 2023-11-13, 22:41

hessenfarmer's and WorldSavior's arbitral decisions are final, and anyone who still disagrees shall please keep their disagreement to themselves! Everything that matters has already been said repeatedly. End of that subject.


The round 3 match between hessenfarmer and me never came to be because of his absence and my illness, and we've agreed to count it as a draw without playing.


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the-x
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Joined: 2019-01-19, 12:23
Posts: 967
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Posted at: 2023-11-13, 23:06

Ich möchte mich für eventuelle Missverständnisse entschuldigen und die Dinge die ich möglicherweise falsch ausgedrückt habe. Mir ist aufgefallen, dass die Argumentation hier zum Teil viel weiter ging und werde in Zukunft selbstverständlich auf die genaue Untersuchung von Spielen verzichten. Lasst uns in Zukunft einen guten Zusammenhalt haben, werde mich in Zukunft auf die Spiele konzentrieren und nie wieder darauf beharren im Recht zu sein.


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