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Topic: I've discovered a cheater

Lerxst
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Joined: 2020-05-16, 00:10
Posts: 16
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Pry about Widelands
Location: Chile
Posted at: 2020-09-24, 14:09

/me grabs the popcorn face-grin.png


In a world where I feel so small, I can't stop thinking big. -- Rush

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the-x
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Joined: 2019-01-19, 13:23
Posts: 674
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Posted at: 2020-09-24, 14:27

I think this thread should be closed as its insulting


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king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
Posts: 1666
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Posted at: 2020-09-24, 15:04

king_of_nowhere wrote:

then again, it would also be fairly easy to tamper with a replay to make it look like someone cheated.

At the other hand, the replay would desync most likely in this case, because additional wares will lead after some time to a player command which makes no sense. Right?

perhaps. i could certainly find the number in the replay start file that sets the starting amount of gold in warehouse. i'm not sure if that gold will just sit there trhough the replay or it will lead to problems. in this second case, then no, tampering with a replay is not easily done.


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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
Posts: 1836
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Location: North of Germany
Posted at: 2020-09-24, 21:50

king_of_nowhere wrote:

king_of_nowhere wrote:

then again, it would also be fairly easy to tamper with a replay to make it look like someone cheated.

At the other hand, the replay would desync most likely in this case, because additional wares will lead after some time to a player command which makes no sense. Right?

perhaps. i could certainly find the number in the replay start file that sets the starting amount of gold in warehouse. i'm not sure if that gold will just sit there trhough the replay or it will lead to problems. in this second case, then no, tampering with a replay is not easily done.

Watching a replay is like a new game is played, so the gold will certainly not just sit there as soon as there is a demand for that gold.

the-x wrote:

I think this thread should be closed as its insulting

You insulted me, but that doesn't mean that the thread has to be closed. I didn't insult you, I just told some facts.

Lerxst wrote:

/me grabs the popcorn face-grin.png

Be careful not to choke on your popcorn face-wink.png

the-x wrote:

Okay, so I should have changed the scripts on both machines.

Wrong, because there was a desync.

The reason for this thread is that ws has a problem in losing.

What losing are you talking about?

the-x wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

At the other hand, the replay would desync most likely in this case, because additional wares will lead after some time to a player command which makes no sense. Right?

Did you read the post above from Sir Ver?

Of course! But you don't seem to have understood it.

He explained it exaxtly, since you tried to deny this again, this shows that our Mr. World Saviour is always blaming people who win games against him and trying to denounce them.

Wrong. As I said there was a desync when you got the ware bonus by cheating.


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einstein13
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Joined: 2013-07-29, 00:01
Posts: 1117
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Location: Poland
Posted at: 2020-09-25, 15:30

WorldSavior wrote:

I didn't insult you, I just told some facts.

Not exactly, WorldSavior. Telling that somebody is a cheater in some cultures is very insulting. In your position, better is to ask "Is it a cheating?" instead of "I've discovered a cheater". That (in my opinion) was your mistake in this discussion.

Facts are that the game got a desynchronisation and on The-X side some wares appeared from nowhere.

Probable thing is that he had some scripts changed that lead to this situation. And his version of Widelands just used them.

Speculations are that The-X cheated and he changed the scripts in purpose.

That is what I can see as an observer.

And to this whole discussion: I am not visiting this site very often and I was curious why in one of the best communities I have found so far, the word "cheater" appeared. And I was very disgusted of the level of the discussion. I felt like in mid-school where teens are shouting each other with no sense (even if the true is somewhere there).

Is it a good idea to do so? I thought that better approach is to ask The-X to explain what that was. And not to judge directly in the first sentence. And instead of ping-pong of different accusations from both of you, say "sorry" for misunderstanding situation, forgive and go with peace?
Maybe one of you misunderstood the second one and that is why this situation happened? (just my speculations here)

And the last thing: if you don't like the way the one is playing, why are you playing with him/her anyway?


einstein13
calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/
backup website files: http://kartezjusz.ddns.net/upload/widelands/

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kaputtnik
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Joined: 2013-02-18, 20:48
Posts: 1958
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Location: Germany
Posted at: 2020-09-25, 21:21

Thanks einstein13 for your words!

I think this discussion leads to nothing, because no one can prove both assertions:

  1. the-x said he told to WorldSavior that he wants to test new starting conditions (probably by modifying some files)
  2. WorldSavior said he didn't know that the-x wants to test new starting conditions

No one in this forum can prove those assertions. So this is a dead thread.

I think we should close this thread, but i want to give the-x and WorldSavior a last possibility for a last statement. This offer last 1 week, or until both had written his last statement. Then this thread will be closed.


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king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
Posts: 1666
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Posted at: 2020-09-26, 18:00

I, for one, think it was useful to learn of this possibility of tampering with the game anyway. i do not think it will become a particular concern, except for advising people to stick to official release for "official" games


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kaputtnik
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Joined: 2013-02-18, 20:48
Posts: 1958
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Location: Germany
Posted at: 2020-09-26, 19:42

I think there could be a a check for some kind of tampering: Creating a hash which is the result of the contents of the datadir (e.g. number of lines in all luafiles, sum of filesizes) for all participants. In a networking game the hashes can be exchanged and if there is a difference, inform all participants.


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Nordfriese
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Joined: 2017-01-17, 18:07
Posts: 1084
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Location: 0x55555d3a34c0
Posted at: 2020-09-27, 21:55

This is not trivial to implement, but a good idea. I am sad that such a thing appears necessary though face-sad.png


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niektory
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Joined: 2019-06-03, 20:06
Posts: 186
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Widelands-Forum-Junkie
Location: Poland
Posted at: 2020-09-27, 22:25

This could be useful to detect accidental modifications but be aware that such file check would be fairly easy to fool if one wanted to bypass it.

Edited: 2020-09-27, 22:32

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