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Topic: Bugs between build20 and build21

Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2020-06-20, 21:49

WorldSavior wrote:

I suggest that the default option is "wares survive", so ctrl-click at enhancing or dismantling doesn't destroy the wares. Why? Because this is the default situation. Situations where one wants to destroy the wares while enhancing or dismantling are very rare.

That's a matter of taste. For me, the semantics of Ctrl-click is "get rid of the building as fast as possible". That's why the wares are not preserved in this case.

Using ctrl to dismantle or enhance quickly is also a default behavior.

You do realize you're contradicting yourself here? face-wink.png Using Ctrl for anything is always a modifier that modifies the default behaviour in some non-default way. And the default way (without Ctrl down) is that wares are preserved unless a checkbox is explicitly unticked.


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niektory
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Posted at: 2020-06-21, 14:34

I think I'd prefer Ctrl+click to preserve wares too, since that's what I want most of the time. Not preserving them usually only saves up to 20% or so of dismantling/upgrading time (with the exception of warehouses). And if I want the building gone ASAP it's better to just destroy it.

That said, it's not very important.


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2020-06-21, 14:56

I just realized, that the new starting conditions Discovery and new world are not shown anymore in the game setup screen


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2020-06-21, 15:08

hessenfarmer wrote:

I just realized, that the new starting conditions Discovery and new world are not shown anymore in the game setup screen

Can't reproduce, for me they are shown normally on seafaring maps


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2020-06-21, 15:43

Nordfriese wrote:

hessenfarmer wrote:

I just realized, that the new starting conditions Discovery and new world are not shown anymore in the game setup screen

Can't reproduce, for me they are shown normally on seafaring maps

My fault I somehow overlooked the scrollbar need to see my optician I believe face-wink.png


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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2020-06-22, 22:34

niektory wrote:

I think I'd prefer Ctrl+click to preserve wares too, since that's what I want most of the time. Not preserving them usually only saves up to 20% or so of dismantling/upgrading time (with the exception of warehouses). And if I want the building gone ASAP it's better to just destroy it.

Very good argumentation!

Nordfriese wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

Using ctrl to dismantle or enhance quickly is also a default behavior.

You do realize you're contradicting yourself here? face-wink.png

I'm not

Using Ctrl for anything is always a modifier that modifies the default behaviour in some non-default way.

With default behaviour I mean what the player does. Ctrl+klick is also the default behaviour for building roads or for changing priority in training buildings, for example.

And the default way (without Ctrl down) is that wares are preserved unless a checkbox is explicitly unticked.

The checkbox is a little bit confusing, because "yes" is there on the right side which is unusual. And yes should stand for "yes, keep the wares"

Edited: 2020-06-22, 22:47

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Lerxst
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Posted at: 2020-06-23, 14:48

WorldSavior wrote:

Nordfriese wrote: Using Ctrl for anything is always a modifier that modifies the default behaviour in some non-default way.

With default behaviour I mean what the player does. Ctrl+klick is also the default behaviour for building roads or for changing priority in training buildings, for example.

I beg to differ. Ctrl+something (or Alt or Shift, for that matter) is always a modifier, as Nordfriese correctly points out. If for you Ctrl+click is a default action it's because you've grown accustomed to it, but from a general user experience standpoint it's definitely not a default behaviour.


In a world where I feel so small, I can't stop thinking big. -- Rush

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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2020-06-23, 20:31

Lerxst wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

Nordfriese wrote: Using Ctrl for anything is always a modifier that modifies the default behaviour in some non-default way.

With default behaviour I mean what the player does. Ctrl+klick is also the default behaviour for building roads or for changing priority in training buildings, for example.

I beg to differ. Ctrl+something (or Alt or Shift, for that matter) is always a modifier, as Nordfriese correctly points out. If for you Ctrl+click is a default action it's because you've grown accustomed to it, but from a general user experience standpoint it's definitely not a default behaviour.

This discussion goes away from it's purpose now. It's not so important what is called default or not. But I think that most ctrl-users want that their wares don't get destroyed.

But as we are already talking about it: Does it mean that you want to place every single flag manually and click at every priority button all the time?

hessenfarmer wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

The ship transport has suffered a lot after build20. Not only that there is now a pointless penalty time for ware-unloading which reduces the game fun and changes the game in an unnecessary way, there is also a new bug which can bring down whole island economies: Wares don't get transported. Some ships go around and transport some wares, but many wares stay in the port and many ships just sit around while the amount of wares which are waiting for being shipped increases into thousands of pieces. (amazons6762)

Has this been fixed again?

yes, this was one of the latest commits in master before scheduling winterfreeze. you might consider testing it either in latest master or amazons 7461. This would help for ensuring quality for the ReleaseCandidate

I bring very good news: The bug could not be reproduced in 7461 anymore. In 6762 I could reproduce it.


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2020-06-23, 20:46

WorldSavior wrote:

Lerxst wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

Nordfriese wrote: Using Ctrl for anything is always a modifier that modifies the default behaviour in some non-default way.

With default behaviour I mean what the player does. Ctrl+klick is also the default behaviour for building roads or for changing priority in training buildings, for example.

I beg to differ. Ctrl+something (or Alt or Shift, for that matter) is always a modifier, as Nordfriese correctly points out. If for you Ctrl+click is a default action it's because you've grown accustomed to it, but from a general user experience standpoint it's definitely not a default behaviour.

This discussion goes away from it's purpose now. It's not so important what is called default or not.

It is very important. The default action is what happens normally, obviously. Modifiers provide a way to save yourself one or more clicks, at the cost of giving you less control about the details of the effect. They are an offer for your convenience, which you can accept by using the modifier or decline by not using it.
If the default action is inconvenient for some reason, that's a strong argument for changing it. If you dislike a modifier, you just don't have to use it.

But as we are already talking about it: Does it mean that you want to place every single flag manually and click at every priority button all the time?

Not all the time, but sometimes yes. But those are other, unrelated examples for modifiers that can save you a number of clicks if you want to.

hessenfarmer wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

The ship transport has suffered a lot after build20. Not only that there is now a pointless penalty time for ware-unloading which reduces the game fun and changes the game in an unnecessary way, there is also a new bug which can bring down whole island economies: Wares don't get transported. Some ships go around and transport some wares, but many wares stay in the port and many ships just sit around while the amount of wares which are waiting for being shipped increases into thousands of pieces. (amazons6762)

Has this been fixed again?

yes, this was one of the latest commits in master before scheduling winterfreeze. you might consider testing it either in latest master or amazons 7461. This would help for ensuring quality for the ReleaseCandidate

I bring very good news: The bug could not be reproduced in 7461 anymore. In 6762 I could reproduce it.

No surprise there, I basically rewrote the entire scheduling stuff face-wink.png


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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2020-06-26, 20:42

Nordfriese wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

Lerxst wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

Nordfriese wrote: Using Ctrl for anything is always a modifier that modifies the default behaviour in some non-default way.

With default behaviour I mean what the player does. Ctrl+klick is also the default behaviour for building roads or for changing priority in training buildings, for example.

I beg to differ. Ctrl+something (or Alt or Shift, for that matter) is always a modifier, as Nordfriese correctly points out. If for you Ctrl+click is a default action it's because you've grown accustomed to it, but from a general user experience standpoint it's definitely not a default behaviour.

This discussion goes away from it's purpose now. It's not so important what is called default or not.

It is very important. The default action is what happens normally, obviously. Modifiers provide a way to save yourself one or more clicks, at the cost of giving you less control about the details of the effect. They are an offer for your convenience, which you can accept by using the modifier or decline by not using it.
If the default action is inconvenient for some reason, that's a strong argument for changing it. If you dislike a modifier, you just don't have to use it.

I could also say "if someone wouldn't like it that wares survive if he uses ctrl, he just doesn't have to use it".

Following your logic one should change it that way, because the modifier saves then as much clicks as possible.

WorldSavior wrote:

I bring very good news: The bug could not be reproduced in 7461 anymore. In 6762 I could reproduce it.

No surprise there, I basically rewrote the entire scheduling stuff face-wink.png

Thanks

I'm wondering: Why are ships patroulling between ports when nothing has to be shipped? (7461) Wouldn't it be smarter if they would just wait at the ports until something's happening?


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