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Topic: Solution proposals for maritime shipping problems

Solstice_s_Return
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Posted at: 2020-02-01, 12:13

It seems that this conversation has drifted a bit from its original topic but luckily isn't yet completely irrelevant. Road transport isnt same as sea transport and there's multiple reasons for that as you know. So can we straighten this a bit and maybe continue talking about road transport in an another topic if needed?


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2020-02-01, 12:16

Okay, back to shipping face-smile.png

Did you get a latest development build to try out the new shipping algorithm?

P.S. The only differences between road and ship transport are the longer distances and the fact that ships have multiple destinations.

Edited: 2020-02-01, 12:18

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Solstice_s_Return
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Posted at: 2020-02-01, 12:36

Nordfriese wrote:

Okay, back to shipping face-smile.png

Did you get a latest development build to try out the new shipping algorithm?

P.S. The only differences between road and ship transport are the longer distances and the fact that ships have multiple destinations.

And they transport varying amounts of goods at once.

No I haven't tried it yet. I'm not familiar with making builds myself. At the moment it still seems to be b19 which can be found from my distro's repository. Maybe it is time to learn how to do builds..


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2020-02-01, 12:44

Which OS are you on - linux? There it´s as easy as installing the packages listed here and then typing

git clone https://github.com/widelands/widelands.git
cd widelands
./compile.sh -r

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2020-02-01, 12:48

Hm,
I still believe shipping isn't the reason behind this it just makes some flaws more obvious than road transportation.
I still think the root cause is in the ware allocation algorithm, and this can't be fixed in shipping.
For me the idea of simplypeachy is at leat discussable.
If we change the don't stock, prefer, normal and remove buttons with the same buttons as for the economy targets we have more control without losing any capability. In the beginning we should have the economy target as given in the lua of each ware. with each warehouse we should increase this by a defined value. the sum of the targets gets evenly distributed to all warehouses. If we increase the target in one warehouse the target is decreased in all others leading to transportation immediatley stated without having to press a remove button risking a major congestion. If the increased demand is overseas we would much likely having a ship transporting a large amount of the ware at once rather shipping one single piece of log while other transport has to wait. Furthermore the foreign colony gets baked up permanently with a higher stock. So I think this would indeed solve a lot of problems and gives more control to the player.


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Solstice_s_Return
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Posted at: 2020-02-01, 12:58

hessenfarmer wrote:

Hm,
I still believe shipping isn't the reason behind this it just makes some flaws more obvious than road transportation.
I still think the root cause is in the ware allocation algorithm, and this can't be fixed in shipping.
For me the idea of simplypeachy is at leat discussable.
If we change the don't stock, prefer, normal and remove buttons with the same buttons as for the economy targets we have more control without losing any capability. In the beginning we should have the economy target as given in the lua of each ware. with each warehouse we should increase this by a defined value. the sum of the targets gets evenly distributed to all warehouses. If we increase the target in one warehouse the target is decreased in all others leading to transportation immediatley stated without having to press a remove button risking a major congestion. If the increased demand is overseas we would much likely having a ship transporting a large amount of the ware at once rather shipping one single piece of log while other transport has to wait. Furthermore the foreign colony gets baked up permanently with a higher stock. So I think this would indeed solve a lot of problems and gives more control to the player.

I think this is a good sum up of the most useful ideas here. I would add the home port idea to these through as then those ships would more likely be available quickly - maybe even too quickly which warrants using some short delay for loading wares to a ship.


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JanO
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Posted at: 2020-02-01, 13:01

I like it, too. But I would do it the other way round: Set absolute numbers for each warehouse which can be globally increased or decreased with the economy target window.


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Tibor
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Posted at: 2020-02-01, 13:13

So these per ware per warehouse targets will work like upper limit - they would not allow another ware and force provider to look for another warehouse to send the ware to.

But is is still possible that count of existing wares will exceed the sum of all targets and thus the engine will be forced to pick one of the warehouses.


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Solstice_s_Return
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Posted at: 2020-02-01, 13:29

Couldn't there also be a change in the algorithm that doesn't order the ship to get a ware but instead just orders an amount of ships according to the number of goods required to transport. So then it does not allocate them to any ship but just orders enough ships to handle the demand. Then when the first ship arrives it takes as much wares as available for the demand and continues to the destination port. When the next ship arrives, it again takes as much wares as possible at that given moment. If there's still wares left over for the demand when the allocated amount of ships are all on their route to the destination, the algorithm orders as many additional ships as necessary to fill the demand. The difference to the current system is that there's no direct ware orders while the ships are on the sea but just an amount of goods that sets the demand of ships. Then the algorithm orders, for example, one ship per 10 units of cargo. That unit amount might have to be dependent of the sea route length to be the most effective.


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Solstice_s_Return
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Posted at: 2020-02-01, 13:37

Tibor wrote:

So these per ware per warehouse targets will work like upper limit - they would not allow another ware and force provider to look for another warehouse to send the ware to.

But is is still possible that count of existing wares will exceed the sum of all targets and thus the engine will be forced to pick one of the warehouses.

This has to be so that the first destination warehouse is the final destination as long as the destination is warehouse. When demanded, the ware can be reallocated to a different warehouse. Otherwise it may lead to wandering wares which overload road system.


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