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Topic: Ranked map pool

trimard
Joined: 2009-03-05, 22:40
Posts: 206
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Widelands-Forum-Junkie
Location: Paris
Posted at: 2019-11-09, 15:27

I know it's the third topic about ranking, but if I put everything in the same tread it will become unmanageable I think.

So progress is getting slow to automatize things. But the ranking is currently working and we could go one step further in the good direction here:

We select a few maps which we think are balanced for 1vs1 matchup and that we like. The goal is to rotate this pools relatively frequently, every 3 or 6 months?

Why a map pool?

  • Easier to decide which map for two players

  • Balanced map

  • Motivation to try different map than usual

Questions

  • How to decide? Could we make a pool with a certain number of choices? Don't know the limitation of the pool system currently. Got the idea from seeing the current pool being made, which is a nice feature btw. We should use it more often!

  • How many maps? 5? 10? I think the less the more relevant. And even more as there are very few games being played currently, so players don't really have the time to get bored of the current maps.

  • Ideas of maps? face-smile.png


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king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
Posts: 1436
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One Elder of Players
Posted at: 2019-11-09, 19:11

why roitate the maps? if a map is good, it can stay there

Edited: 2019-11-09, 19:11

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trimard
Joined: 2009-03-05, 22:40
Posts: 206
Ranking
Widelands-Forum-Junkie
Location: Paris
Posted at: 2019-11-09, 21:45

So that people test different maps with time. It's also rewarding to the map creator to have their map in the pool. And if the pool is small, this makes even more sense.

Of course, we can very well rotate only part of the maps, and keep for a few season a map that is very appreciated, yes!

I think that could be entirely decided by vote: if people like a map, they will continue to vote for it.


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einstein13
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Joined: 2013-07-29, 00:01
Posts: 1093
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: Poland
Posted at: 2019-11-10, 22:28

I think that the idea that the map can stay in the pool is a good one. But the problem is how to implement the automation between static Widelands application and dynamic pool of maps. Will it be some kind of automatic update? That can be hard, because not all players are likely to be connected to the Internet. Of course, when trying to play multiplayer - yes. So there are some parts of this idea:

  • What are the rules to create and update pool of official (balanced) maps?
  • How it can be implemented (to be easy to maintain and use)?
  • How it will impact the Widelands application? How it will impact the game itself?
  • What happen if any of the implemented parts will fail?

einstein13
calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/

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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
Posts: 1273
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One Elder of Players
Location: GER
Posted at: 2019-11-16, 17:44

einstein13 wrote:

I think that the idea that the map can stay in the pool is a good one.

Me too

trimard wrote:

But the ranking is currently working and we could go one step further in the good direction here:

Good news that the ranking is working. Can you show us?

  • How many maps? 5? 10? I think the less the more relevant. And even more as there are very few games being played currently, so players don't really have the time to get bored of the current maps.

Depends on how many maps are good face-wink.png

  • Ideas of maps? face-smile.png

Yes, for example:

  • Together we are strong (If both players conquer 1 island each, the match is draw if autocrat)
  • the taw, red vs yellow
  • three warriors
  • elven forests, red vs yellow
  • swamp monks, east vs west
  • four castles, no idea about colors
  • big lake, green vs blue, black vs blue, black vs red
  • the nile, symmetric starting conditions
  • Ice wars, blue vs ochre

“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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trimard
Joined: 2009-03-05, 22:40
Posts: 206
Ranking
Widelands-Forum-Junkie
Location: Paris
Posted at: 2019-11-17, 22:40

einstein13 wrote:

I think that the idea that the map can stay in the pool is a good one. But the problem is how to implement the automation between static Widelands application and dynamic pool of maps. Will it be some kind of automatic update? That can be hard, because not all players are likely to be connected to the Internet. Of course, when trying to play multiplayer - yes. So there are some parts of this idea:

  • What are the rules to create and update pool of official (balanced) maps?
  • How it can be implemented (to be easy to maintain and use)?
  • How it will impact the Widelands application? How it will impact the game itself?
  • What happen if any of the implemented parts will fail?

I think these question are way too soon. I think we should keep the game and the website separated as long as the ranking system isn't working as intended on the forum. Another reason, is that if this new feature prove not bring that many players as was expected, I don't want to waste too much of others people time.

Now knowing that, I can still answer what I think we should do if we automatize things face-tongue.png .

  • Create and update should be done as much as people wish, and every map are voted on a pool. that way, no need for crazy rules. Just let people vote for maps they want to play :).
  • Maps will be updated by the arbiter. I think in a dedicated page? Or maybe just use the admin page. It can be easy to use for such task.
  • The real question as to how the game will be modified, will probably the last. I do think the UI of the multiplayer will have to be changed a lot at that point.
  • Yes, Another reason why we shouldn't rush the automatization are the potential for failure. At least if the system on the website bug. People can still play games!

Good news that the ranking is working. Can you show us?

Well last visible update I posted in the appropriate topic. But since then most change were "invisible".

What do you want me to show you? An updated tournament? I wait for more games, because that's kind of lot of work. I have to redo all the maps, as I destroy the db pretty often.

Thanks for the maps propositions Worldsavior, it's a good start. I wouldn't vote for three warrior personally though. I struggle too much with wood face-tongue.png

edit: Realized I didn't really answered Einstein's questions

If everythings goes as planned, how I would see the UI in multiplayer is:

  • Add a "create ranked game" where you can crete a game that only contains the maps of the pool. Or maybe map should be random from the pool, and players discover the map when game starts? face-smile.png

  • Game is automatically registered at end of the game where the data are sent to the server

Edited: 2019-11-17, 23:35

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