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Topic: Problem with campaign "Surpeise, Surprise"

M56
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Joined: 2019-09-01, 17:06
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Posted at: 2019-09-01, 18:12

The the lumberjack to the left of the HQ has three trees inside its work area and one of the foresters has an overlapping work area, which makes that lumberjack a productive building to me. This mislead me into not dismantling it. When the objective was not fulfilled after I had dismantled all other unproductive buildings (fisher, lumberjack, well,quarry). I wrongly assumed I also had to dismantle the larger buildings and mines that were at 0% because of missing resources. After that I destroyed the farms.

When I realized my mistake and dismantled the remaining lumberjack I was able to continue.

...

When I reached the point where I met the barbarians and was supposed to make soldiers and train them I was still able to recruit soldiers and train their evade skill to level 1 in the Arena. But I was not able to build a training camp (or upgrade the Arena to Colosseum) because that building is only enabled after a certain amount of soldiers have been trained in the initially available bad version of the training camp (which I had dismantled). This made the entire gold production, advanced weapon and armors useless. I was still able to win the game, but it was quite challenging at times.

I suggest:

  • to not have trees inside any of the lumberjacks' work radius

  • to not overlap the forester / lumberjack working radius for the initial buildings

  • to be able to (re)build the bad version of the training camp once you are supposed to train soldiers

I had fun playing the campaign none the less.


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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
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Posted at: 2019-09-01, 21:28

Hi M56, and welcome to the forum. Thanks for your detailed report. I will have a look into it. For the beginning just some remarks:
- the lumberjacks are placed by random so your first 2 issues are a bit tricky to solve. However we tried to be as clear as we could in the campaign messages. did you read them carefully?
- for the trainingcamp I could either make it buildable or prevent it to be dismantable. I am not sure on this so far.


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M56
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Posted at: 2019-09-01, 22:36

hessenfarmer wrote:

Hi M56, and welcome to the forum. Thanks for your detailed report. I will have a look into it. For the beginning just some remarks:
- the lumberjacks are placed by random so your first 2 issues are a bit tricky to solve. However we tried to be as clear as we could in the campaign messages. did you read them carefully?
- for the trainingcamp I could either make it buildable or prevent it to be dismantable. I am not sure on this so far.

The objective is:

Dismantle all unproductive small buildings to get some resources for new buildings.

... and as a subtext:

Remember to check the messages and the building statistics for unproductive buildings.

At the start you get the resource not available message for the two wells, fishermen, and quarry, but only for two of the three lumberjacks. The other buildings I dismantled were not small, but the lumberjack wasn't unproductive either. The only thing I was confident in was that I was stuck at that objective.

That second sentence of the objective is outright misleading to be honest. As the general objective was getting building materials, dismantling more buildings didn't seem that bad at the time.

 

If placing the buildings differently is out of the question maybe it could be checked if the productivity of the building is actually 0% when checking if the objective is fulfilled? As I see it it is not critical that materials are obtained from all nine small buildings. If one is actually doing something it wouldn't hurt if it is left intact. For that to work the wells maybe should be changed to not produce any water though.

 

Thank you for welcoming me!

Edited: 2019-09-01, 22:51

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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2019-09-01, 23:34

perhaps the trigger could be changed from "dismantle all small buildings" to "build a new lumberjack and quarry". that would avoid forcing the player to dismantle ALL buildings.

And perhaps add that larger buildings are to be saved for later


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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
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Posted at: 2019-09-02, 10:22

M56 wrote:

The objective is:

Dismantle all unproductive small buildings to get some resources for new buildings.

... and as a subtext:

Remember to check the messages and the building statistics for unproductive buildings.

Correct. However it clearly states that only small buildings are to be dismanteled, furthermore in the Text spoken by Amalea it is mentioned that the lumberjacks seem to be unproductive.
Anyhow I decided to allow the objective to be fulfilled with one or two of the relvant buildings still standing.

At the start you get the resource not available message for the two wells, fishermen, and quarry, but only for two of the three lumberjacks. The other buildings I dismantled were not small, but the lumberjack wasn't unproductive either. The only thing I was confident in was that I was stuck at that objective.

That second sentence of the objective is outright misleading to be honest. As the general objective was getting building materials, dismantling more buildings didn't seem that bad at the time.

 

If placing the buildings differently is out of the question maybe it could be checked if the productivity of the building is actually 0% when checking if the objective is fulfilled? As I see it it is not critical that materials are obtained from all nine small buildings. If one is actually doing something it wouldn't hurt if it is left intact. For that to work the wells maybe should be changed to not produce any water though.

Actually they have only a chance of 10 % to produce water, which is far worse than normal (66%) so one could easily recognize they are bad. But I will change that to 5 % so they should show out of ressource in any case.

 

Thank you for welcoming me!


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2019-09-02, 10:27

king_of_nowhere wrote:

perhaps the trigger could be changed from "dismantle all small buildings" to "build a new lumberjack and quarry". that would avoid forcing the player to dismantle ALL buildings.

I will make the objective more fuzzy allowing one or two buildings still standing. However these buildings are performing really bad (the lumberjack sleeps a lot in comparison to normal) and it would definitly be better to dismantle all of them and build the correct ones.

And perhaps add that larger buildings are to be saved for later

I will try to make the trainingcamp buildable so one could correct the error. But i could add a line to Amalea's speech that we should be carefful not to dismantle too much. I will not add it to the objective text cause I want the player to read the texts, and the objectives should be only short reminders


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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2019-09-02, 14:12

hessenfarmer wrote:

king_of_nowhere wrote:

perhaps the trigger could be changed from "dismantle all small buildings" to "build a new lumberjack and quarry". that would avoid forcing the player to dismantle ALL buildings.

I will make the objective more fuzzy allowing one or two buildings still standing. However these buildings are performing really bad (the lumberjack sleeps a lot in comparison to normal) and it would definitly be better to dismantle all of them and build the correct ones.

well, then perhaps be clearer in the objective that one has to dismantle all of them


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2019-09-02, 15:14

king_of_nowhere wrote:

hessenfarmer wrote:

king_of_nowhere wrote:

perhaps the trigger could be changed from "dismantle all small buildings" to "build a new lumberjack and quarry". that would avoid forcing the player to dismantle ALL buildings.

I will make the objective more fuzzy allowing one or two buildings still standing. However these buildings are performing really bad (the lumberjack sleeps a lot in comparison to normal) and it would definitly be better to dismantle all of them and build the correct ones.

well, then perhaps be clearer in the objective that one has to dismantle all of them

the objective states to dismantle all unproductive small buildings. How could this be made more clear? What I am going to do is just to declare the objective fulfilled a bit earlier. Sorry for the confusion, but it is very hard to take every possible useraction into acount while scripting scenarios.


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2019-09-03, 15:24

Ok,
I just uploaded a branch with following changes:
- small trainingcamp is now buildable although at very high costs. (it is not intended the player should stay with them)
- first objective done with 2 buildings still standing (although you miss the woodcutter in the new building then)
- well have only 5 percent chance to mine water
- added some texts to not dismantle bigger buildings until we know what we are doing.


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2019-09-05, 08:51

Ok branch is merged so trunk should be fine now


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