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Topic: Widelands - Discord

kaputtnik
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Joined: 2013-02-18, 20:48
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Posted at: 2019-03-03, 10:57

What we can do is to provide a link here on the homepage to the discord channel created by stonerl. We can add it to the Contact page, but then it is deep inside the structure of the page.

Or we can add it to the first sentences in the multiplayer lobby ('Welcome to the widelands Metaserver...'). But this smells like an advertisement...


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stonerl
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Joined: 2018-07-30, 00:03
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Posted at: 2019-03-03, 13:38

@GunChleoc

Regarding your concerns. I totally agree that we need to inform the users. Just some remarks. I'm not sure about all of it, since I'm no layer, but wouldn't it be enough to tell the user when they enter the metaserver that the lobby is connected to discord? The "only" information the bot transfers is the username and the message. Neither the IP-Address nor any other information is stored. Of course Discord does store what is transferred from the IRC-channel to the Discord-Channel.

But that begs another question. Currently there a bunch of people connected to IRC-channel, and they clearly use Relay-Bots. Although we don't store any information, these Relay-Bots may do. I know that they are operated by private persons but from my understanding this is a similar situation.

Would it be enough to have a message like this?

*** The lobby is connected to our Discord-Server, all messages will be transferred to the #widelands-en channel there."

I'm pretty sure most users even don't know that the metaserver is connected to IRC either, let alone they know what IRC actually is.

Regardless, I'm pretty sure that some users would object to have the lobby connected to Discord. So, I currently have the bot connected to #widelands-de and #widelands-news, only. I hope that is fine with you. A question arises, though; wouldn't it be better to have a channel dedicated for the lobby that can only be joined by starting the game?

@kaputtnik

We do have the Facebook button on top of the page. We could have a Discord button next to it, or we move it to the Chat-Section.

Discord also provides am iframe-widget:

src="https://discordapp.com/widget?id=551405535434506241&theme=dark" width="350" height="500" allowtransparency="true" frameborder="0"

We can also hand the username to the widget:

src="https://discordapp.com/widget?id=551405535434506241&theme=dark&username=<username>" width="350" height="500" allowtransparency="true" frameborder="0</username>

But I leave this up to you.


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kaputtnik
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Posted at: 2019-03-03, 17:20

stonerl wrote:

@GunChleoc

Regarding your concerns. I totally agree that we need to inform the users. Just some remarks. I'm not sure about all of it, since I'm no layer, but wouldn't it be enough to tell the user when they enter the metaserver that the lobby is connected to discord?

No, afaik not. We are responsible for the things we send. An information like 'Chats made here are also send to discord' isn't enough to fulfill european law. At least we have to link their privacy policy, imho.

I'm pretty sure most users even don't know that the metaserver is connected to IRC either, let alone they know what IRC actually is.

Yes, that's true. And in my opinion this isn't good, because something happens a user does not know about, nor he/she can inform his/herself about this connection.

Regardless, I'm pretty sure that some users would object to have the lobby connected to Discord. So, I currently have the bot connected to #widelands-de and #widelands-news, only. I hope that is fine with you.

Why? The amount of users in #widelands-de is 1 up to 3...

@kaputtnik

We do have the Facebook button on top of the page. We could have a Discord button next to it, or we move it to the Chat-Section.

Yes, thats a good idea face-smile.png

Discord also provides am iframe-widget:

Thats not good. Not sure, but i guess this will store additional information (cookies) to the user of our website. We have to adjust our privacy policy and describe which information is gathered (GDPR). BTW: This was one reason to remove the paypal button from our page.

A link is fine for me, any other implementation which makes us responsible for private data is a no go for me.


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stonerl
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Posted at: 2019-03-03, 17:37

kaputtnik wrote:

Regardless, I'm pretty sure that some users would object to have the lobby connected to Discord. So, I currently have the bot connected to #widelands-de and #widelands-news, only. I hope that is fine with you.

Why? The amount of users in #widelands-de is 1 up to 3...

I have reconfigured the bot, it is currently connected to #widelands, #widelands-de and #widelands-news. For #widelands I have set it up to ignore the metaserver. Messages from Discord will be shown in the lobby, but messages from the lobby won't be shown on Discord. I leave it until we decide it is safe to open it bidirectional (have a proper privacy statement etc.). #widelands-de and #widelands-news are already bidrectional.

There are also bots that allow to delete the channel message history in certain intervals.

kaputtnik wrote:

We do have the Facebook button on top of the page. We could have a Discord button next to it, or we move it to the Chat-Section.

Yes, thats a good idea :-) A link is fine for me, any other implementation which makes us responsible for private data is a no go for me.

Well then lets use a link. face-smile.png


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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
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Posted at: 2019-03-03, 17:45

kaputtnik wrote:

I do not know much about discord also... i have tried to gather some information:

  • it is proprietary software
  • saves all data on a server in USA

Sorry, but i am always skeptical about proprietary software which can be used for free...

stonerl wrote:

The idea is not bad, but we would have to connect the IRC-Channel and discord. There seems to be a way to do this.

All irc communication will be saved on the discord server then?

Don't take my words too harsch, i am just an old man who do not understand this brave new world face-wink.png

Good points. So maybe I don't like discord...

GunChleoc wrote:

What is the data retention like in Discord? Our IRC channels are not logged, so bridging it to Discord will mean that we need user consent. And since our lobby chat is bridged to IRC, this means that all players will need to be presented with Discord's privacy policy and agree to it before they can start playing in multiplayer.

Sounds bad to me

Edited by kaputtnik: Reverted the accidentally made changes

Edited: 2019-03-04, 21:36

“It's a threat to our planet to believe that someone else will save it.” - Robert Swan

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stonerl
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Posted at: 2019-03-03, 22:47

The Discord-Channels now deletes messages that are older than 24h or when 100 messages or more are written.


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kaputtnik
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Posted at: 2019-03-04, 07:48

"Our" Discord-Server is located in Frankfurt, if this is somewhat reassuring...

Nevertheless all data is stored in the USA.

They more or less make money by selling merch and games. And stated that they won't sell user data (as always we need to take this with grain of salt)

They also connect data with other Social Networks (if a discord user also uses this social Network)

https://discordapp.com/privacy

Messages from Discord will be shown in the lobby, but messages from the lobby won't be shown on Discord. I leave it until we decide it is safe to open it bidirectional (have a proper privacy statement etc.).

ok...

#widelands-de and #widelands-news are already bidrectional.

I would vote for having #widelands-de also one way...


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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2019-03-05, 11:23

stonerl wrote:

A question arises, though; wouldn't it be better to have a channel dedicated for the lobby that can only be joined by starting the game?

The reason that we have this is that the lobby isn't very busy, so it is advantageous to be able to monitor it via IRC. Having IRC open is more convenient than having the Widelands lobby open. It was discussed at the time.


Busy indexing nil values

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janus
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Joined: 2009-06-26, 13:35
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Posted at: 2019-03-06, 09:08

Damit wir ggf nicht auf dieses Kommunikationsmittel verzichten müssen, den nahbereich des einzelnen respektieren können und uns an die Datenschutzgrundverordnung halten wird wohl ein etwas größerer spagat nötig sein.

Im IRC, wir auch im Spiel selber, ist der Metaserver, der es ermöglicht, aus dem Spiel heraus ins IRC und umgedreht zu kommunizieren. Nach Rücksprache mit Notabilis, der sich aktuell um den Metaserver kümmert, wäre eine Brücke ins Discord auch möglich. Damit nun die eingangs beschriebenen Herausforderungen bewältigt werden können, bedarf es ein paar Einstellungsmöglichkeiten für den Metaserver. Auf der Webseite muss es dann unter den eigenen Einstellungen die Möglichkeit geben, zu wählen, in welchem Dienst (Im Spiel, IRC, Discord) meine Nachricht aus dem jeweiligem anderen Dienst angezeigt wird. Beispiele wären dazu:

  • Ich bin im Spiel, möchte nicht das meine Nachricht im IRC und Discord angezeigt wird
  • Ich bin im Spiel, möchte nicht das meine Nachricht im Discord angezeigt wird aber im IRC
  • Ich bin im Spiel, möchte nicht das meine Nachricht im IRC angezeigt wird aber im Discord
  • Ich bin im Spiel, möchte das meine Nachrichten im IRC und Discord angezeigt werden
  • Ich bin im IRC, möchte nicht das meine Nachricht im Spiel und Discord angezeigt wird
  • Ich bin im IRC, möchte nicht das meine Nachricht im Spiel angezeigt wird aber im Discord
  • Ich bin im IRC, möchte nicht das meine Nachricht im Discord angezeigt wird aber im Spiel
  • Ich bin im IRC, möchte das meine Nachtichten im Spiel und Discord angezeigt werden
  • Ich bin im Discord, möchte nicht das meine Nachricht im Spiel und IRC angezeigt wird
  • Ich bin im Discord, möchte nicht das meine Nachricht im Spiel angezeigt wird aber im IRC
  • Ich bin im Discord, möchte nicht das meine Nachricht im IRC angezeigt wird aber im Spiel
  • Ich bin im Discord, möchte das meine Nachrichten im Spiel und Discord angezeigt werden

Beim Metaserver muss es dann in jedem Dienst eine Möglichkeit geben sich Anzumelden. Im Spiel ist das schon realisiert. Im IRC kann das über eine Private Nachricht mit Anmelde Daten erfolgen oder Anhand der Hostmask die in den Einstellungen hinterlegt ist. Im Discord wäre der registrierte Name die Anmeldung. Das i Tüpfelchen ist/wäre, das in jedem Dienst seine Einstellungen zu ändern sind (Ich suche auf allen Diensten einen Spielpartner, schalte es kurz an, danach wieder aus und kommuniziere danach wieder nur auf dem Dienst selber).

Anhand der als Beispiel genannten Optionen entscheidet der Metaserver dann, in welchen Dienst die Nachricht aus dem Dienst wiedergegeben werden soll. So hat jeder Angemeldete Nutzer die Möglichkeit für sich zu entscheiden, welcher Dienst welche Nachricht erhält. Die Frage die bleibt ist, was mit Nachrichten von nicht angemeldeten Nutzern passiert. Soll es so sein, dass wer nicht Angemeldet ist, willigt ein, das seine Nachrichten weitergeleitet werden, da wir dies vom Spiel her so vorsehen, damit eine Reibungsfreie Kommunikation stattfinden kann. Oder, wer nicht Angemeldet ist, dessen Nachrichten werden nicht in die anderen Dienste weitergegeben, eine suche nach einem Spielpartner wäre dann nur auf den jeweiligen Dienst beschränkt.

Der Metaserver entstand aus dem eingestellten GGZ Netzwerk und diente dazu, unkompliziert aus anderen Diensten Spielpartner zu finden. Das soll auch weiterhin der Zweck des Metaserver sein, eine Brücke unter den einzelnen Diensten um Spielpartner zu finden.

Tante Edith meint:

  • mit "im Spiel" ist die Lobby gemeint

  • mit "im IRC" sind die Kanäle #widelands, #widelands-de, #widelands-news im Freenode gemeint

  • mit "im Discord" sind die Kanäle identisch dem im IRC gemein

Edited: 2019-03-06, 18:29
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kaputtnik
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Posted at: 2019-03-06, 18:08

Just to be clear: We are talking about connecting the Lobby (!) with discord. Not about connecting the communication made inside a game, right?

If feasible i think having some more checkboxes in the loginscreen

metaserver login

would be enough. Say having checkboxes like:

  • Connect the lobby also with IRC
  • Connect the lobby also with discord

From my point of view it should be very, very clear that only the lobby get connected to such services. Preferably the login window should also get a help button.

Edited: 2019-03-06, 18:29
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