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Topic: Atlantean style?!?

Kiscsirke
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Joined: 2009-12-16, 13:40
Posts: 42
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Pry about Widelands
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Posted at: 2010-04-27, 09:15

Okay, so I'll try to geet some information this time. We (graphics developers, I am only partially there but whatever) would like to know what everyone would like atlanteans to be like, so we can proceed making their models. Right now Chuck and I both started working on it, and here are our starts, first mine:

Kiscsirke_WKiscsirke_SWKiscsirke_SE

And Chuck's male and female ones:

Chuck_M_WChuck_M_SWChuck_M_SE

Chuck_FM_WChuck_FM_SWChuck_FM_SE

So what I'd like is for EVERYONE who looks at this to at least say which one they like better. But of course I'd like detailed opinions even better, these are just experiments, we can still change anything around, so just say what you'd like to see, and if majority agrees, we'll comply (with the resolution these workers appear in game, we can model basicly anything in blender that could be seen in that size, because we wouldn't need to get too complex with it anyways, so don't hold back face-smile.png )

Oh, and while you're here I'd be happy to hear some opinions on empire too, but don't feel obliged face-smile.png


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Kiscsirke
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Joined: 2009-12-16, 13:40
Posts: 42
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Pry about Widelands
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Posted at: 2010-04-27, 09:24

Okay, so I'll post my own opinion in a separate post, because I don't want to pollute the threas start with it. I (well, maybe not surpsisingly) like my version better.

I don't like the green skin colour, I like Widelands especially because it's "realistic", and not fantasy, which is really rare in medieval settings otherwise, and green skin color for me is too "fantasy"-ish. (And I don't have anything against fantasy, I like fantasy, it's just that Widelands doesn't fit with it in my mind). The ponytail and the... ummm.. "skirt" are things I could easily be talked into, though maybe not for the carrier. I also wouldn't use so many jewels, I don't think they'll be easily seen in the game, if we want to represent their use of jewels, maybe a big blob necklace, or at the base of the ponytail would be better noticable.

Just my 2c face-smile.png


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raistware
Joined: 2009-09-07, 17:31
Posts: 71
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Likes to be here
Posted at: 2010-04-27, 10:09

Looks amazing!

Personally I prefer Chuck's pictures for atlantean, firts one is so Greek (empire) and could be used to this tribe.

Go on with good work!


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SirVer
Joined: 2009-02-19, 15:18
Posts: 1439
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One Elder of Players
Location: Germany - Munich
Posted at: 2010-04-27, 10:10

I quote myself from a bug report on launchpad

when I first though about the atlanteans, I imagined them with distinct fantasy like features: a society firmly ruled by the clerics, a fatalistic acceptance of their fate to vanish in the see, real or imagined magic as perceived building block in society, a greenish colored skin and long hair bound to a ponytail as traditional hairstyle. The atlanteans are a rich people in my imagination. I did never think about their cloths though. tunics seem good to me. Maybe barbarians -> cloth, empire -> leader & metals, atlanteans -> tunics? Hope that helps a bit ;).

So this said, I prefer chucks approach. The campaign around the atlanteans that I am about to be doing with winterwind and Nasenbaer will reveal the story around the atlanteans: damned to vanish in the sea and they accept their fate. For more that is the reason for the green skin: as they are white, yellow, black, red and so on people; I imagine that there was once the green people who died together with their great culture and the city of atlantis. This stretches it not too far for me.

Kiscsirke, I have the following issues: The carrier looks too similar to the empire one. The tunic or not tunic is not a strong enough feature ingame imho. I suggest having a bare body as chuck's model to make the distinction to the other tribes strong.


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ixprefect
Joined: 2009-02-27, 14:28
Posts: 367
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Tribe Member
Posted at: 2010-04-27, 10:43

I like both designs, I don't really feel strongly either way.

I think at least the carriers should be more plain than the second design, i.e. less jewelry/whatever. For other workers (especially soldiers), such jewelry would be very nice to distinguish them, though.


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chuckw
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Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23
Posts: 945
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One Elder of Players
Location: New York - USA
Posted at: 2010-04-27, 16:53

While I definitely would like to see Kiscsirke's model used in the game, I agree it gives more of an impression of the empire. Which is not a bad thing. The two cultures could have sprung from the same ancestry.

As for my take on the subject, I tried to use existing atlantean material and SirVer's earlier comment from the bug report as a guide, asking myself, "What would an island-dwelling, possibly Mesoamerican/Egyptian/Mediterranian/Asian/Who Knows race look like." A different skin tone from the original models was definitely called for and my first run at these folks had them in a much more pronounced, almost Martian green. When scaled down for the game, tho, I thought they looked like so many little frogs running around. face-smile.png So I toned the green way back to more of an olive cast similar in many respects to the Mediterranian cultures.

Hairstyle was also an avenue for clear definition from the other tribes, tho it could possibly inhibit the effective use of some head gear. For SirVer's ponytail, I pictured more of a cue for the carriers like I depicted in the model. This could open up possibilities for the use of different styles of bald pate/hairiness for the other workers in the tribe. I think it is within the realm of reason to even add a greenish highlight to the hair. The color of which could be uniform throughout the tribe as is the case with many non-European cultures. Here the use of a gray or white hair color could certainly be used to indicate a "master" craftsman.

I'm still learning the finer points of blender, so my skills with depicting cloth are almost non-existent. Fortunately, the scale of the game is very forgiving when it comes to apparel. face-smile.png I like the concept of the long robes a lot. It bespeaks of a culture that is not only highly evolved, but also practical in dealing with their environment which we can assume was originally temperate-to-tropical. One can look to the Greeks, Arabs and Zulus for examples of this. The only drawback I see to the bare-chested look is when the tribe is placed in a winter scenario. I shiver just to think of those poor little guys out in the snow with no shirt. face-grin.png

As for jewlelry, again I realize that much detail is lost when scaled to the game, but I added them to my models because I think there is a call for a hint of the tribe's use of crystal/gold/etc. for ornamentation as well as for "practical" application (who knows how they would have used crystals?). But I think they'd have a natural attraction to beautiful things. They are human after all... (or ARE they?) face-surprise.png

Also, I feel the Atlanteans have a strong connection to nature. This is even supported by the current design of their buildings and the use of a texture that gives the impression of vegetation integrated into the building architecture.

In sum, this is my basis for the look of the models that I submitted. I would certainly comply with any direction the elders and the team wish to take.

There is my 2c's. face-grin.png


I see little people.

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Astuur
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Joined: 2009-02-28, 10:08
Posts: 733
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One Elder of Players
Location: Frankfurt / Germany
Posted at: 2010-04-27, 16:57

Alexa Death once told me that there was an agreement, that Atlanteans should be taller and more the slender types - not so staunch like the other two tribes. This may not be valid anymore, though. It seemed to be a good idea then to have some diversity.

But seeing those drafts now, I am no more sure of this. It may well be an advantage to have similar proportions among the tribes. The diversity could come from other things, like walking style or whatever. Both look great, and I have only a slight preference for Chuck's models (the toga would be great for Imperials, I think) Ah ... love to see those in game and get rid of the "generics" face-smile.png


Being no programmer, I apologize for all my suggestions that imply undue workload and for other misjudgements due to lack of expertise or relevant skills.
I am on Win32, have no means to compile, and rely on prefabricated distributions (Thanks to Tino).

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SirVer
Joined: 2009-02-19, 15:18
Posts: 1439
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One Elder of Players
Location: Germany - Munich
Posted at: 2010-04-27, 22:06

The danger with slimmer models is imho that the difference must be very strong to be visible in the engine and that the models then end to look natural compared to the already existing. I also like the knubby-knobbly lock that the current workers have. Some studies could be interesting to see though.


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Astuur
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Joined: 2009-02-28, 10:08
Posts: 733
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One Elder of Players
Location: Frankfurt / Germany
Posted at: 2010-04-28, 07:41

Those models raise another topic: Do we want females? -- and if so, where do we place them?

Just mix our carriers and workers randomly? Quarry-women?

Put them all in the taverns?

At least it would explain the seemingly inexhaustible supply of new workers from the warehouses face-wink.png


Being no programmer, I apologize for all my suggestions that imply undue workload and for other misjudgements due to lack of expertise or relevant skills.
I am on Win32, have no means to compile, and rely on prefabricated distributions (Thanks to Tino).

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QCS
Joined: 2009-12-29, 22:47
Posts: 256
Ranking
Tribe Member
Posted at: 2010-04-28, 10:04

Well, in the tribe I'm currently working on, males and females are very distinct: Males do hard work, females are soldiers, and the priests are either male or female, depending on the god (always the opposite sex of the god). I guess at least for the Empire lots of workers are male. Carriers could be both sexes. Barbarians would probably not prefer any sex for the workers, while Atlanteans seem to prefer women for higher work, and men for lower work... well, that's just my feeling.

On the Atlanteans, I like them having bare skin, but I don't like the green skin. But I can live with it, if that's the point of the tribe face-smile.png


CMake is evil.

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