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Topic: Report Frisians Playing

Arty
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Joined: 2018-08-03, 12:14
Posts: 20
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2018-09-17, 12:35

1.c - Agreed. I am also often annoyed by the tabs not being remembered, especially with the inventory.

1d - Agreed.

Nordfriese wrote: 1d – it would certainly be useful, but my vote is -1. I prefer that people have to read carefully and memorize everything that could be important. That way, if some character happens to drop a remark that will be important later, you´re at an advantage if you remember everything. Reading the history is cheating face-wink.png

Haha. I would't feel bad about this kind of "cheating". When I played the first Frisian mission, I had to stop in the middle and didn't find time to continue playing for over a week. Then I didn't remember the details of the setting and considered starting anew, but eventually just re-read the event texts in the lua file. Would have been great to have access to a history ingame, where one could re-read the events and the completed tasks.


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GunChleoc
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Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56
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Posted at: 2018-09-17, 15:54

1b - I have a branch open where all font sizes will be accessible via Lua, not just the scenario message ones. The following step then would be to define the scenario message font sizes also in that central style definition, and finally allow the creation of different styles

1c. - I have filed a bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/widelands/+bug/1792940

1d. I think a log would make sense especially for hints that are a bit hidden. This way, after making an unfavourable decision, the player could return to an eairler stage if the scenario and play from there rathe than replaying from the beginning.

Regarding the unlocking of campaigns, I am in favor of keeping it, but maybe of relaxing the prerequisites a bit:

  1. Barbarians 1 -> Empire 1
  2. Empire 2 -> Atlanteans 1
  3. Atlanteans 1 -> Frisians 1

I think it makes sense not to show a player a campaign scenario unless they are ready for it. I also have a change in implementation in the works that will remember completed scenarios rather than unlocked scenarios - this way, there will be no problem with hidden scenarios and campaigns when players upgrade from an older version of Widelands.


Busy indexing nil values

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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
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Posted at: 2018-09-17, 19:59

1c. +1
1d. +1 (although I prefer the player to read for the first time, but the save game scenario of Arty convinced me. After a couple of days it might be hard to remember)

I would like to have the first mission of all tribes visible. Perhaps we could have a warning displayed if for example atlantean mission has not been played and frisian 1 is opened, that it is not recommendable to play them before the others have been played

Edited: 2018-09-17, 19:59

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Fresenius
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Joined: 2018-08-26, 09:45
Posts: 12
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Pry about Widelands
Location: Germany
Posted at: 2018-09-17, 20:09
1.b - The point here is that the font size should perhaps be a hidden value both for the user and the scenario developer. Ideally, and in a comfortable program, actual font size would be managed automatically resting on i) the screen parameters (more precise: the metrics like dots per inch) ii) a user choice in program options (like "small fonts" or "big fonts") and iii) possibly a designer's choice, like e.g. a style name. The latter is a bit of luxury, the other points are rather advisable to look good.

1.d - From my gaming experience, I don't think that measuring a player's skills in memorizing is such a great feat! There are countless events that can occur which make a history a great asset. E.g. someone is reading a lengthy series of scenario instructions, then suddenly mother comes in and demands the room cleaned. Otherwise, the phone starts ringing and conveying shocking messages. In many such cases you would just store and terminate the game in the hope you can later continue. The case that somebody returns to a particular game just after many months is a realistic one.

About the campaign menu, a minimum safety would be to store the argument values at a location which survives program update and manual overwriting. That is then likely in the .widelands folder at a secure place. Not sure how it works right now. The critical point left over is "new user" installation (change of OS etc.). In these cases, where the player is new, the program could ask for "newbie" or "experienced" status and switch different setups for the campaign menu or whatelse. I admit this is then luxury.
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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
Posts: 1509
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Posted at: 2018-09-17, 20:14

Fresenius wrote:

About the campaign menu, a minimum safety would be to store the argument values at a location which survives program update and manual overwriting. That is then likely in the .widelands folder at a secure place. Not sure how it works right now. The critical point left over is "new user" installation (change of OS etc.). In these cases, where the player is new, the program could ask for "newbie" or "experienced" status and switch different setups for the campaign menu or whatelse. I admit this is then luxury.

Currently it is stored in .widelands and it can be "hacked" there as well. But only a new OS installed would need such a hack. PS: hacking is just changing some values in a text editor.


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Arty
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Joined: 2018-08-03, 12:14
Posts: 20
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2018-09-17, 21:19

GunChleoc wrote:

Regarding the unlocking of campaigns, I am in favor of keeping it, but maybe of relaxing the prerequisites a bit:

  1. Barbarians 1 -> Empire 1
  2. Empire 2 -> Atlanteans 1
  3. Atlanteans 1 -> Frisians 1

I think it makes sense not to show a player a campaign scenario unless they are ready for it. I also have a change in implementation in the works that will remember completed scenarios rather than unlocked scenarios - this way, there will be no problem with hidden scenarios and campaigns when players upgrade from an older version of Widelands.

I agree that it makes sense to guide players along a somewhat natural progression here. Aside from possibly relaxing unlock requirements, it might be nice to:

  • list all the campaigns but have them greyed out (and not selectable of course) if they aren't unlocked yet, including a hint what's necessary to unlock.
  • have a checkbox to unlock unlock them all regardless, with a warning that this is not the intended order of playing.

This would accomplishes several things:

  • New players are guided naturally along a path with a nice learning curve.
  • It's clear from start that there is more than just one campaign. (No "unfinished game" vibe, no confusion.)
  • No one is really forced to follow the unlock path (or modify game files) if they don't want to. (Might be experienced players on a new system or just stubborn players who want to start with the difficult stuff.)
Edited: 2018-09-17, 21:20

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Tinker
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Joined: 2014-09-12, 10:53
Posts: 184
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Posted at: 2018-09-18, 10:04

Two excellent ideas from Arty.


The only way to prevent a mass extinction event is to remove homo sapiens, or stupiditus, from the planet. It may be to late for this final solution though.

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GunChleoc
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Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56
Posts: 3237
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Posted at: 2018-09-18, 10:15

We need to start by merging https://code.launchpad.net/~widelands-dev/widelands/campaignselect_box, then we can think about further improvements.


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Fresenius
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Joined: 2018-08-26, 09:45
Posts: 12
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Pry about Widelands
Location: Germany
Posted at: 2018-09-18, 11:03

Arty's idea is an advancement from the present state. If an unlock option is to be implemented, it might be considered to move it to the options section. This makes releasing the lock less seductive and the newbie likely ignorant. Moreover the overview is less cluttered with noise.


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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
Posts: 1800
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One Elder of Players
Location: North of Germany
Posted at: 2018-09-18, 21:54

Is there any reason why the campaigns should be played after each other? For me it looks like it would be better if all four of them would be independent from each other, if I don't overlook something.


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