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Topic: "Northmen" Tribe Page

WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
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Posted at: 2017-06-26, 00:11

Nordfriese wrote:

Barley grows half as fast as wheat, which is why I think the farm really needs its large working radius.

If it grows half as fast as wheat (which is not unreasonably slow in my opinion), it will need twice as much space. And the faster the farmer(s) will work in comparison to barbarian/imperial farmers, the more space the barley fields will need. At least that's what I think.

Imperial farmers need only less than a third of their working area, approximately, barbarian farmers need one field less. (probably because they are slower!)

So actually a working radius of 2 could be enough, and maybe it would be better. At least it would be silly if the farmers would often go to the fields which are very far away from the center.


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2017-06-26, 06:59

All right, I´ll test giving the farms a smaller working area.

One thing I´m more concerned about is that the economy is much too complex at the moment. There are just too many buildings. So I suggest the following simplifications:

  • No scrap metal and recycling centre. Instead, training sites will drop out iron ore and gold ore at a rate of 1 iron/gold ore per iron/gold ingot that was used to create the weapon/helmet/armour.

  • No need for beer in small mines. Deep mines will need beer, while mead is reserved for soldier training.

  • No mud mine. The digger works instead at the Clay Burner´s House, so the brick production chain is Well→Water→Clay Burner´s House→Clay→Brick Burner´s House→+Granite→Brick

  • The weaving mill only makes cloth and is only buildable on seafaring maps. The seamstress produces fur clothes, a new Master Seamstress adds iron and gold.

I also like the idea of giving back a large part of the build costs when dismantling a building. But the recycling idea is only good when production of the recycled wares is complicated. As I just suggested several ways to simplify the economy, I think we should choose between complex economy with lots of recycling and a not-so-complex economy with modest recycling.


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Venatrix
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Joined: 2010-10-05, 20:31
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Posted at: 2017-06-26, 09:45

Nordfriese wrote:

All right, I´ll test giving the farms a smaller working area.

One thing I´m more concerned about is that the economy is much too complex at the moment. There are just too many buildings. So I suggest the following simplifications:

  • No need for beer in small mines. Deep mines will need beer, while mead is reserved for soldier training.

Means, you still need beer and mead, thus simplifying the economy not too much. Just saying.

  • No mud mine. The digger works instead at the Clay Burner´s House, so the brick production chain is Well→Water→Clay Burner´s House→Clay→Brick Burner´s House→+Granite→Brick

Hmm… I would not expect to see burned bricks in such a tribe. I’d rather expect them to use mudbricks, which could be done by getting grains and straw from the barley farm, using the straw for mudbricks and the grains for everything else. That way you could make one building (Brickmaker’s Hut/House) for making mudbricks out of water, straw and mud, that he gathers before. Not sure if that’s too complex for the game, though, or if it introduces possible deadlocks.


Two is the oddest prime.

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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2017-06-26, 09:55

How about mud + reed = brick, this way we won't need an additional ware.


Busy indexing nil values

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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2017-06-26, 14:23

Mudbricks are usually used in warmer regions like Spain or Africa. Wikipedia has some examples for regions where they are used. I can´t see how that would fit this tribe.

The traditional Frisian architecture uses clay and wood and sometimes bricks:

Die Wände der Häuser wurden ursprünglich aus Grassoden, Lehm oder Holz errichtet, die meisten der heute erhaltenen Häuser haben jedoch Wände aus gebrannten Ziegeln

(Source: Wikipedia, Geesthardenhaus)

(Translation: The walls were originally made of grass, clay or timber, though most houses still standing have walls of burned bricks.)

This is why I really think burned bricks make sense. Besides, the tribe would have hardly any use for granite if they used mud bricks. In my current implementation, houses are mainly built out of bricks and logs, often with some granite and always thatch reed.

Removing beer from rations simplified things a lot. Fully promoting a soldier costs bread, honey bread, beer, mead, (smoked meat OR smoked fish) AND weapons/armour. Deep mines need beer and honey bread. The drinking hall can produce rations easier but slower than a tavern can: The tavern needs 1×(bread OR fruit) AND 1×(smoked meat OR smoked fish) to make 2 rations; the drinking hall turns 1×(smoked meat OR smoked fish OR fruit) into 1 ration. It is not allowed to use bread.

One thing I noticed is that barley production is much too fast! After a few hours of playing, I had hundreds of units of barley in stock because the bakeries and breweries don´t consume as fast as the farms can make them. If I make barley growth and farming speed ~10 times slower, they will be about as good as the barbarian wheat farms.

The aqua farm (produces fish) now consumes water and fruit (water is also part of the build cost). I´m still not sure what it should consume. What do you think?


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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
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Posted at: 2017-06-26, 16:07

Nordfriese wrote:

One thing I noticed is that barley production is much too fast! After a few hours of playing, I had hundreds of units of barley in stock because the bakeries and breweries don´t consume as fast as the farms can make them. If I make barley growth and farming speed ~10 times slower, they will be about as good as the barbarian wheat farms.

face-grin.png How did that happen that it is 10 times faster? Of course this is much too fast. But it is not a result of the growth speed or the radius, but of the working times of the farmers, right?

The aqua farm (produces fish) now consumes water and fruit (water is also part of the build cost). I´m still not sure what it should consume. What do you think?

There are many possibilities, but it depends on the tribe balance. I have no overview right know


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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
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Posted at: 2017-06-26, 20:10

Hi I love the possibilty to have a new tribe.
Do yopu have any build to playtest with?
Or did you create a new branch to download?
Personnaly I just compared the pure numbers and I can't see much difference in the numbers of the buildings between the other tribe and the northmen. So I think we should not make the economy to simple. For me managing and optimizing a complex economy is the core of the game so really I'd like to give it a try and test it.

Regards and thanks for the work.


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JanO
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Posted at: 2017-06-26, 21:39

The aqua farm, what kind of fish is it producing? Saltwater or freshwater?

If saltwater-fish (mussels?) then it should be located on the coast but not consume water. If freshwater-fish then it has to consume LOTS of freshwater...

Edited: 2017-06-26, 21:39

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2017-06-26, 22:00

By the way fish could be easily fed with barley. Doesn't need much though. perhaps 5 water 1 barley for two fish or similar numbers that fit in balancing schemes.


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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2017-06-27, 00:27

Nordfriese wrote:

Mudbricks are usually used in warmer regions like Spain or Africa. Wikipedia has some examples for regions where they are used. I can´t see how that would fit this tribe.

The traditional Frisian architecture uses clay and wood and sometimes bricks:

good catch. if we want to keep the economy as it is, we can just call them clay bricks and the mud pit will just be renamed clay pit.

One thing I noticed is that barley production is much too fast! After a few hours of playing, I had hundreds of units of barley in stock because the bakeries and breweries don´t consume as fast as the farms can make them. If I make barley growth and farming speed ~10 times slower, they will be about as good as the barbarian wheat farms.

makes no sense. regardless of how fast the crop grows, how much can be produced depends on the speed of the farmer. So I see 2 possibilities: 1) you gave the farmer 0 sleep time 2) the production isn't that great but the economy just doesn't use much barley.

The aqua farm (produces fish) now consumes water and fruit (water is also part of the build cost). I´m still not sure what it should consume. What do you think?

if they are raising fish, then water and fruit seems reasonable.


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