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Topic: Widelands tournament 2016; official announcements

king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
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Posted at: 2017-01-27, 18:42

WorldSavior wrote:

king_of_nowhere wrote:

actually, worldsavior could have won alone.

I'm not sure about that at all. Your defense strategy is very effective... You stopped me with just a couple of soldiers and I wasted a lot of building materials.

Well, you conquered my teammate, then you could have double land and double production. if it had been 1v1 without the remaining two position, then I may have held the defensive position to a stalemate. as it was, my only chance would have been to attack with all and hope to get really lucky in the fights. i didn't try because notabilis had enough good soldiers to stop me there, unless my luck was really ridiculous.


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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
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Location: North of Germany
Posted at: 2017-01-30, 18:00

Yes, maybe


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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2017-01-31, 19:02

This evening I may be a bit late. Like, 10-15 minutes.

EDIT: in the end i was early

Edited: 2017-01-31, 19:27

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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2017-02-01, 00:52

Return of the king!

This game was somewhat similar to the previous one, except with me and worldsavior swapping roles. I learned from the previous games and made a very fast start. For the first time I switched to empire, as it is best at dealing with the paucity of wood that is tipical of archipelago sea, and of the yellow position in particular, as I discovered. My plan was to block worldsavior while trusting my teammate notabilis to kill sirver. I reached the middle first, made the first elite soldiers, pushed back worldsavior, then I attacked sirver, because trusting your teammate is good but helping him along is better. I was not able to kill sirver, because worldsavior started pushing back on my border pretty soon (unlike what I did in the previous game), but I weakened him greatly, and so notabilis could defeat him easily enough - despite a surprisingly tough and bloody last stand.

In that situation, I had resigned, feeling the most honorable action was to recognize the value of the opponent. Worldsavior, instead, wanted to go down hard. And he did. Over the course of the game, I lost over 50 fully promoted soldiers in the grimy business of pushing him back, islet after bloody islet - we're talking 1000 pieces of coal and 500 of iron ore being thrown into that sensless carnage. Even as he was losing his economy piece after piece, he kept producing new fighters till nearly the end. Eventually, though, my economy prevailed.

After being trounced by him the first time, and being forced on the defensive while he slaughtered my teammate - hearing his plead for help, but being powerless to intervene - it was good to defeat worldsavior on my own. I am no longer the strongest, but I am still at least as strong as anyone else. And I am because I learned from my defeats and became stronger myself.

I am also happy that I could use my archipelago sea map in high end competitive gaming. I designed it for that purpose, but I'd never have thought, realistically, that it would happen. Turned out some positions had easier access to wood and space than others, though. If I want to use it again, I will have to rework it. And I also got to use fjords!

So the tournament has ended. It was a good one. i will host a new one in a few months. I hope to see you there.


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kaputtnik
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Joined: 2013-02-18, 20:48
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Posted at: 2017-02-01, 06:59

Congrats to the winners!

I guess most players are winners, because they learned a lot face-smile.png


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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2017-02-01, 22:43

Thank you, kaputtnik. It would be interesting to see you participating in a tournament face-wink.png

king_of_nowhere wrote:

Return of the king!

You are a king of nowhere face-wink.png

This game was somewhat similar to the previous one, except with me and worldsavior swapping roles.

No... My victories against you have been very clear, but this time you've just had a lot of luck: I counted that - in the game-deciding first four hours of the match - 23 of my heroes died in fights against your heroes while just 14 of your heroes died. That's really unfair, and 9 heroes make a really big difference... (And I've seen that not a single hero of my army died after 4 hits, even though they didn't use shields. So: That wasn't the reason). And I used them clever, at least not less clever than you used yours face-wink.png

I learned from the previous games and made a very fast start. For the first time I switched to empire, as it is best at dealing with the paucity of wood that is tipical of archipelago sea, and of the yellow position in particular, as I discovered. My plan was to block worldsavior while trusting my teammate notabilis to kill sirver. I reached the middle first, made the first elite soldiers, pushed back worldsavior, then I attacked sirver, because trusting your teammate is good but helping him along is better. I was not able to kill sirver, because worldsavior started pushing back on my border pretty soon (unlike what I did in the previous game), but I weakened him greatly, and so notabilis could defeat him easily enough - despite a surprisingly tough and bloody last stand.

In that situation, I had resigned, feeling the most honorable action was to recognize the value of the opponent. Worldsavior, instead, wanted to go down hard. And he did. Over the course of the game, I lost over 50 fully promoted soldiers in the grimy business of pushing him back, islet after bloody islet - we're talking 1000 pieces of coal and 500 of iron ore being thrown into that sensless carnage. Even as he was losing his economy piece after piece, he kept producing new fighters till nearly the end. Eventually, though, my economy prevailed.

I hoped that I would have luck. If I would have had your luck, not the other way around, I would have reached the draw. At least face-wink.png

After being trounced by him the first time, and being forced on the defensive while he slaughtered my teammate - hearing his plead for help, but being powerless to intervene - it was good to defeat worldsavior on my own. I am no longer the strongest, but I am still at least as strong as anyone else. And I am because I learned from my defeats and became stronger myself.

Slaughtered? * rolling my eyes * face-wink.png

Ha, you didn't defeat me on your own... The random generators helped you a lot and there is not so much what you can do against them.... So I still don't know if you play as strong as I do face-wink.png

I am also happy that I could use my archipelago sea map in high end competitive gaming. I designed it for that purpose, but I'd never have thought, realistically, that it would happen. Turned out some positions had easier access to wood and space than others, though. If I want to use it again, I will have to rework it. And I also got to use fjords!

So the tournament has ended. It was a good one. i will host a new one in a few months. I hope to see you there.

I'll think about participating...

By the way, if you play the green position at archipelago sea, you have a big disadvantage: you have to expand to south and east. If you play yellow, it's the opposite, so that's an advantage. Blue and Red just have one bad direction for expanding, but red is worse because they have to expand to the east to reach the middle. The green position is much worse than red and blue for sure, but I didn't play much at yellow. Probably yellow is better...


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king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
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Posted at: 2017-02-02, 02:40

If you want to nitpick, I'm not in the mood to watch the replay and recount the fights right now, but I may just point out that you defeated me starting from what is - by the judgment of all - the best starting position of the map. I had a worse starting position; having tried both, red is better than yellow.

Edited: 2017-02-02, 03:16

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einstein13
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Joined: 2013-07-29, 00:01
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Location: Poland
Posted at: 2017-02-02, 10:59

king_of_nowhere wrote:

having tried both, red is better than yellow.

You know that you are arguing with yourself now? face-tongue.png Your map should be at most balanced for any position (it was designed that way). Maybe I am wrong now, but from my point of view, it is very balanced and most of the players will not find any difference.

About tournament: Congratulations to all the people who took place in it! It was great bunch of games and I think that most of you learned something new about Widelands!

Also SirVer should be proud of himself: he managed to build great piece of fun and very good community!


einstein13
calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/
backup website files: http://kartezjusz.ddns.net/upload/widelands/

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king_of_nowhere
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Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
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Posted at: 2017-02-02, 12:33

einstein13 wrote:

king_of_nowhere wrote:

having tried both, red is better than yellow.

You know that you are arguing with yourself now? face-tongue.png Your map should be at most balanced for any position (it was designed that way). Maybe I am wrong now, but from my point of view, it is very balanced and most of the players will not find any difference.

Eh, we discussed this in chat starting from the second game, and it turned out the map was much less balanced than I was hoping. While everyone has the exact same amount of build spaces and resources, the ease of access to them is different. Blue player has a large fertile island to start, he can get a good wood production (wood production is very difficult on archipelago sea) and he also has a land wherehe can expand quickly everywhere. redplayer has a goood large island to make wood, but the conformation of the terrain is such that he has real troubles expanding north, and most of his best farm spaces are very far from his headquarter. yellow player has very little space to grow wood, and most of it is relatively infertile land (desert mountain meadow; when I made the map I didn't knew trees, I just picked colors that looked good). though a lot of his land is relatively easy to reach. can't speak for green cause i did not use it.

All three players who tried the blue position agreed that it is the best of all. if i want to use this map in future tournaments, I will have to do some fixing.


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WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
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Location: North of Germany
Posted at: 2017-02-04, 13:06

king_of_nowhere wrote:

If you want to nitpick, I'm not in the mood to watch the replay and recount the fights right now, but I may just point out that you defeated me starting from what is - by the judgment of all - the best starting position of the map. I had a worse starting position; having tried both, red is better than yellow.

Red is not worse than blue in my opinion - maybe it's even better. You start with more land, a better wood economy and you've got also some big building spaces early...

einstein13 wrote:

About tournament: Congratulations to all the people who took place in it! It was great bunch of games and I think that most of you learned something new about Widelands!

Thanks face-smile.png


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