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Topic: Out of fields

GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2015-06-08, 10:46

Again, nothing will change for mines or non-renewable resources like the quarry, because I have set the values in the config files so that they will have identical behaviour to what they are already doing.

We can't mix both approaches. I think maybe the productivity version will be the one where we can find good config values for each building more easily? For example, for the reed yard, we could set it at 10% or even 5%. Which values we end up using needs to be tweaked over time.

I'm against adding a button to the buildings - this makes things too complicated for the player. The messages will show up every 30 minutes maximum, so if we have good values in the config, they shouldn't become annoying.

ETA: I have made a merge request. If these messages get triggered too often for some building types during gameplay, we can lower the values in the config files until we are happy with it. The parameter to tweak is called "productivity_threshold".

Edited: 2015-06-08, 14:53

Busy indexing nil values

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einstein13
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Posted at: 2015-06-08, 15:54

For some players and maps reed yards should work at almost 100%. It is not good enough for them to work with less than 3 fields. For Empire Vineyard it is not worth building them with 3 fields instead of max 5.

Ok, I udnerstand that 1 fields it much better (infinitive) than 0, but for some maps it is not enough. So triggering the messages for 0 fields is not a good idea.

@ Tibor: if the mine run out of resources, there is always law possibility (5% or 10%) of getting an ore. So when there is a possibility to have some counter reset.


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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2015-06-08, 16:15

einstein13 wrote:

@ Tibor: if the mine run out of resources, there is always law possibility (5% or 10%) of getting an ore. So when there is a possibility to have some counter reset.

I'm just saying this again: Mines are NOT affected by this change, because they use completely different code.


Busy indexing nil values

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Tibor
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Posted at: 2015-06-08, 20:13

I want to repeat one point yet:

if 'n' is set to 10, it needs 10 failures in a line to trigger out or fields/resources message. As % of performance is calculated from 20 last attempts, actual % of performance can not exceed 50%. But probably it will much lower then this. If n=15, max performance in the instant of 'out of fields' mesage can be 25%.

another point: once the treshold (n) is achived, it will stay achieved as long as the building exists. So it loses any meaning afterwards (for buildings with renewable resources)


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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2015-06-08, 23:03

einstein13 wrote:

For some players and maps reed yards should work at almost 100%. It is not good enough for them to work with less than 3 fields. For Empire Vineyard it is not worth building them with 3 fields instead of max 5.

yeah, it depends on the player and on the map. that's why i would have liked the customizable approach.

even an advanced option "don't send out of fields messages" would be ok; good players would disable it, while others wouldn't even know it exist.

if we have to choose, i'd say the productiivity approach is the best. for percentages, i would say 80% for farms/blackroot farms/wineyards/reed yards (some players would want it at 100%) and 20% for woodcutters.


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einstein13
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Posted at: 2015-06-09, 00:11

For me 80%, even 70% is acceptable. And for woodcutters the trigger can be set even to 15%.

But everything has to be checked face-smile.png


einstein13
calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/
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DragonAtma
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Posted at: 2015-06-09, 02:42
Farms, vineyards, etc. may need two messages:
* A message for when there's not enough room for enough fields to get 100% (but there IS room for at least one field),
* A message for when there's no room for even one field.

After all, while a 60% farm is better than no farm, a 0% farm is not! (until you manage to make room)

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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2015-06-09, 10:16

Good point. I think we should only trigger this message when the production gets really really low. If the building is just at low productivity, you can always use the building statistics as you would for the other building types.

I did a bit of testing, a reed yard will drop to 20% if it has only one field. So that's where I will set the threshold. If productivity drops below 20%, it will have no fields and trigger a message. How many fields do you think we should have at least for farms and vineyards?

We also still need good values for hunters, lumberjacks and wells. I think Atlantean and Empire hunters should be at 0%, because they don't have a gamekeeper.

Edited: 2015-06-09, 10:49

Busy indexing nil values

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king_of_nowhere
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Posted at: 2015-06-09, 19:59

i'd say 2 fields for farms and not sure if 1 or 2 for vineyards. for woodcutters i already said 20%. for the others, i'm not sure


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Tibor
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Posted at: 2015-06-09, 22:22

So you will eliminate counter altogether then?


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