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Topic: Empire Seafaring Graphics

chuckw
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Posted at: 2012-01-14, 18:35

Seafaring has arrived in WL for ALL of the tribes and is no longer the sole realm of the Atlanteans. :) This thread is intended to be exclusively for the discussion of the development of graphics for the Empire seafaring objects, (i.e. ships, harbors, shipwrights, etc.)


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chuckw
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Posted at: 2012-01-14, 18:57

Like the Barbarians, the Empire tribe is often associated with a real historic people. In the Empire's case, the Roman Empire. As such, I think it is logical to pattern their vessels after craft contemporary to that period of history. I'm talking about biremes, triremes, galleys, grain ships, etc. If we are to limit ourselves to just one design, at least initially, I would favor the more militaristic vessels because of their well known and easily identifiable characteristic painted eyes and the ram on the prow. They were propelled by both oars and sails and came in various sizes.

Sound logical? Let's hear your ideas.


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chuckw
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Posted at: 2012-02-19, 23:15

Here are the plans that I am going to use as a reference for the Empire ship.
plans

This portrays a BiReme (two rows of oars). My model may or may not have two rows. We'll see. face-smile.png
I've downloaded a number of images (of replicas, models and artist's conceptions) from which I'll likely borrow details, but if anyone can come up with any images (or better, schematics) of the cross-section of a REAL galley (this plan is for a solid-core model), I'd appreciate it. It will be very handy come time for me to attempt the build sequence.

Comments? Questions? Suggestions?


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chuckw
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Posted at: 2012-02-19, 23:25

The Roman Empire lasted for many years and over that time styles warships and different types of vessels used in trade came and went.
Question: The picture below shows a warship in the foreground (#2) and a merchant vessel used for transporting goods in the left mid-ground (#1). #3 & #4 in the background are other larger warships.

ships

I was going to do a military ship like #2, but is there a preference for the trading vessel in light of the focus of WL?

You can only have ONE type (for now). Which should I do?


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PkK
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Posted at: 2012-02-19, 23:52

AFAIK, many widelands developers are from Germany, so some might want to have a lookt at the "Museum für antike Schifffahrt" in Mainz. AFAIK they have 5 Roman ships discovered in the early 1980s there (and many models based on reconstructions of more Roman ships).

Philipp


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chuckw
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Posted at: 2012-02-20, 00:49

Thanks for the reference to the "Museum für antike Schifffahrt" in Mainz,PkK. I came across a number of images of the recreations and models that are there, like this one Mainz1

While the galleys and bi/triremes would be readily recognizable as Roman ships, I have some reservations. 1) They were predominantly used in warfare and 2) At a distance certain models resemble our ships for the atlanteans and barbarians. But I guess ships designed for the same purpose WOULD have similarities.

Take a look at these images of Roman merchant vessels like the one in the illustration above.
Merch1 Merch2

Personally, I am growing rather fond of the vessel with the swan's head on its stern and unless I hear a loud preference for the galley, I just may take a try at that.

What do the rest of you think?


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SirVer
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Posted at: 2012-02-20, 10:28

Please keep in mind that the Empire is the Empire. They are not the Romans :). That said, I love the stern (is that the right word? I am neither english native nor navally inclined. I mean the front part of the ship) in the second picture chuck posted. Looks mighty to me. I am not too fond of the round shields - imho they are reserved for the barbarians in our world. I'd suggest sticking with the rectangular that the soldiers are carrying.

Ps: great work on the build sequences of the ships, chuck!


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chuckw
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Posted at: 2012-02-20, 13:53

SirVer wrote: Please keep in mind that the Empire is the Empire. They are not the Romans . That said, I love the stern (is that the right word? I am neither english native nor navally inclined. I mean the front part of the ship) in the second picture chuck posted. Looks mighty to me.

The most effective biremes and triremes, etc. had bronze rams just below the water line on their prow which were used to sink enemy vessels, well..., by RAMMING them. face-smile.png

I have no nautical experience myself (other than modeling ships) face-wink.png but here is a brief English nautical jargon primer:

  • prow or bow = front of the ship at the "forward" or just "fore" end of the vessel
  • stern = back of the ship at the "aft" end of the vessel
  • starboard = on the RIGHT of the ship as you face forward
  • port = on the LEFT of the ship as you face forward

I am not too fond of the round shields - imho they are reserved for the barbarians in our world. I'd suggest sticking with the rectangular that the soldiers are carrying.

My thought exactly. Keep things consistent.

Ps: great work on the build sequences of the ships, chuck!

Thanks! I hope I can do the empire ship as finely.

So, here, I guess, is +1 for the galley/bireme?


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Astuur
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Posted at: 2012-02-20, 17:31

My favourite would be the one with the swan's head. Not because of that, but the bireme just doesn't look like it can carry wares.
It seems to much of a warship - looks fast, but rather small.
The third one simply doesn't show many recognizable or typical features for me.
But that middle one ... yes, my vote.
Hmm... the rig seems quite complicated, though.
I'd love to see that spinnaker - would clearly set it apart from all other ships.
But certainly not easily done.


Being no programmer, I apologize for all my suggestions that imply undue workload and for other misjudgements due to lack of expertise or relevant skills.
I am on Win32, have no means to compile, and rely on prefabricated distributions (Thanks to Tino).

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chuckw
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Posted at: 2012-02-20, 21:13

@Astuur: You echo my thoughts about storage capacity for wares.
A square spinnaker may just find its way onto the ship, be it merchant OR galley. face-wink.png

So now the vote is galley +1, merchant +1

Let's hear from the rest of you. and QUICKLY please. 15 March is speeding toward us!!


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