Topic: Backwards compatible buildings

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SirVer Topic Opener Joined: 2009-02-19, 14:18 Posts: 1440 One Elder of Players Location: Germany - Munich	Posted at: 2011-11-18, 20:55 This will discuss the first community poll: http://wl.widelands.org/news/2011/11/18/community-poll-backwards-compatibility-buildings/ Edited: 2011-11-18, 22:13 Top Quote

borim Joined: 2009-09-04, 11:13 Posts: 52 Likes to be here Location: germany	Posted at: 2011-11-18, 21:01 which community poll? did I miss anything?! Top Quote

SirVer Topic Opener Joined: 2009-02-19, 14:18 Posts: 1440 One Elder of Players Location: Germany - Munich	Posted at: 2011-11-18, 21:12 borim wrote: which community poll? did I miss anything?! You are too fast. I am currently whipping it together I just needed to create the topic to have something to link to. Top Quote

borim Joined: 2009-09-04, 11:13 Posts: 52 Likes to be here Location: germany	Posted at: 2011-11-18, 21:51 Oops From which inn do you speak in the poll? The barbarian, or the imperial one? I guess you mean the imperial inn, as it does not produce rations. In general I have no problem with breaking old "habits", when there is a reason to do so double oops... sorry just was too eager Edited: 2011-11-18, 21:55 Top Quote

a.bit Joined: 2011-11-18, 22:03 Posts: 4 Just found this site	Posted at: 2011-11-18, 22:20 I find neither option particularily convincing and think the problem should be approached from the other side: demand, not supply. I find it perfectly reasonable that if I update my hot dog stand to fancy restaurant, it will no longer produce anything resembling hot dogs. However, what is unreasonable is the assumption that the previous consumers of hot dogs would refuse to eat what the fancy restaurant produces. In the real world, prices would keep them from choosing to do so, but still the meals are substitute goods for hot dogs. Thus, feeding the normal miners meals would mean to cast pearls before swine, and waste resources if meals are more expensive to produce than rations, but it should be at the player-dictators whim to decide so if need be. (Not sure this generalises well to other goods -- maybe the strong ale is just too strong for the new recruits?) Top Quote

a.bit Joined: 2011-11-18, 22:03 Posts: 4 Just found this site	Posted at: 2011-11-18, 22:23 (OT: "Posted at: tomorrow, 01:20"?! Is the forum running on some servers in Belarus or Ethiopia?) Top Quote

Fopper Joined: 2010-09-10, 06:50 Posts: 23 Pry about Widelands Location: The Netherlands	Posted at: 2011-11-19, 07:02 I have not made up my mind either. I do understand the confusion when you start with playing Barbarian (and you do as you start with the tutorial) and go to Empire. But this can be undermined with good information. The solution of a.bit also sounds logical with food only (knowing it adds complexity from the programmers side as you still want a decent (optimal) distribution if you have both the inn and tavern) On the other hand I do think it adds a little complexity to the game that is absolute worthwhile. Top Quote

Astuur Joined: 2009-02-28, 09:08 Posts: 733 One Elder of Players Location: Frankfurt / Germany	Posted at: 2011-11-19, 07:15 I have been voting for the change, because I would not want to frustrate new players bringing their economies to a halt, just because they don't understand the intricacies of the game mechaniscs. There should be uniformity for upgrading the house and promoting the worker. I feel that the need to maintain 2 different buildings for food (added on top of the beer/wine diversity and the sawmill/stonemason requirement, plus the piggery)increases the dependency on the "right" starting position for the Empire too much. Many maps have starting positions that can hardly accomodate all needed empire buildings plus a good road system. A good map should be fair, no matter which tribe starts on which spot. Either the mapmaker must care for that, or the tribes requirements should not be too different as to space and resources. If anyone feels, that an additional handicap of the Empire is needed, I would rather have one of time, instead of space. For this I would opt for required experience levels for the inn-keeper (cook -> chef -> maître de cuisine, or something like this). Nasenbaer's opinion (who has done most of the inter tribe balancing) would be very welcome on that. The desired diversity of the tribes's economy will always influence the chances to cope with the situation on a giving starting position. But if we could lessen the dependency on space, it would help. I don't think it matters much for the game, whether the adjustment is done on the demand or the supply side. Being no programmer, I apologize for all my suggestions that imply undue workload and for other misjudgements due to lack of expertise or relevant skills. I am on Win32, have no means to compile, and rely on prefabricated distributions (Thanks to Tino). Top Quote

borim Joined: 2009-09-04, 11:13 Posts: 52 Likes to be here Location: germany	Posted at: 2011-11-19, 09:37 a.bit nice suggestion to look at this problem from another side. But what if you want to prevent, that meals are consumed by the miners, if it is not neccessary? In other words, as long the mine is not improved. I dont like to waste ressources, that is why the first thing I would like to do, is turn it off I have voted for keeping the inn as it is, because I like the differences between each tribe. I think it is the big plus of widelands, that the tribes have more than just minor differences. That each tribe have a unique philosophy and not just other graphics. If new players have problems with food economy and the other differences. Maybe a crash course in the tribe economy is a nice way to prevent newcomer from frustration. It have to be short, so that impatient guys like me play it And the focus of the crash course should be the tribe differences. The complete economy structure is explained by the campaigns and can be leaved untouched if possible. For the balancing issue I can not say much, as I lack experience in this case. Top Quote

Personal_Joke Joined: 2011-08-10, 13:39 Posts: 29 Pry about Widelands Location: New Zealand	Posted at: 2011-11-19, 11:51 In regards to Astuurs comment: "I would not want to frustrate new players bringing their economies to a halt, just because they don't understand the intricacies of the game mechaniscs." I played settlers 2 so i knew more or less what widelands would be like, however things like requiring both non-upgraded and upgraded versions of buildings is something that you'll learn after playing A SINGLE GAME, then you will know for next time. Well, this was the case for me atleast... Although it can still be hard to remember to build atleast 1 of every building On a sidenote: The quote button only appears on the last comment for each thread. Is this intentional? How do i choose what/who to quote? Edited: 2011-11-19, 12:02 Top Quote

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