Latest Posts

Topic: 2022 Tournament Replays

Nordfriese
Avatar
Joined: 2017-01-17, 17:07
Posts: 1985
OS: Debian Testing
Version: Latest master
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: 0x55555d3a34c0
Posted at: 2022-10-16, 17:08

The tree in question was not fully grown yet. Trees go through four growth stages from Sapling over Pole and Mature to Old. Only Old trees can be cut. When pointing the mouse at the tree it is revealed to be a Mature Larch, so cutting it has to wait until it grows up.


Top Quote
tothxa
Avatar
Joined: 2021-03-24, 11:44
Posts: 452
OS: antix / Debian
Version: some new PR I'm testing
Ranking
Tribe Member
Posted at: 2022-10-16, 17:09

Seefahrer wrote:

The only thing I recognized was that when I built my first woodcutter, I aimed him at a tree that was standing so close to my HQ that I couldn't attach the usual 5 streets (and connected as circle) to the HQ's flag - but nonetheless he was cutting many, many trees but not the one he should have to! lol So I waited and waited until the tree once was gone...

That's not a bug, just some evil little trick from the map designer. Woodcutters can only cut fully grown trees, but that tree's only half grown, so you have to wait for it to grow before you can cut it down.


Top Quote
Seefahrer
Avatar
Joined: 2022-04-29, 17:24
Posts: 58
Ranking
Likes to be here
Posted at: 2022-10-16, 17:20

Ah, ok, thank you for explaining, Nordfriese and tothxa! face-smile.png

Sorry, my fault! Obviously I didn't pay attention by mouse-hovering over it to as what the tree is classified. For me it just looked like all the other trees around! Didn't watch carefully enough!

Well, then for a pity I have no bug ecxuse anymore for losing the game! lol face-grin.png


Top Quote
tothxa
Avatar
Joined: 2021-03-24, 11:44
Posts: 452
OS: antix / Debian
Version: some new PR I'm testing
Ranking
Tribe Member
Posted at: 2022-10-17, 01:11

Re: WorldSavior vs. kaputtnik

Wow! I've never thought of using multiple shipyards to speed up shipbuilding. But in hindsight it's all so obvious, and all so necessary given the time it takes for a single one to build a ship.


Top Quote
Mars

Joined: 2009-03-28, 09:26
Posts: 118
Ranking
Likes to be here
Location: Germany
Posted at: 2022-10-17, 06:45

tothxa wrote:

Re: WorldSavior vs. kaputtnik

Wow! I've never thought of using multiple shipyards to speed up shipbuilding. But in hindsight it's all so obvious, and all so necessary given the time it takes for a single one to build a ship.

My first impression was to limit the range of military buildings to reachable territory, i.e. if a military building cannot attack a field, it cannot conquer it (e.g. behind rocks or water). Conquering would include water but not land fields only reachable by water.

I feels wrong to allow to block the opponent in a way that he cannot advance at all:

  • In the north, the fortification was shielded by rocks. There was no way of mining/cutting them for kaputtnik to attack the fortification, not even with scouts.
  • In the south, the fortification blocked important fields probably needed by kaputtnik to advance. WorldSavior even destroyed all military buildings on his side of the rocks to not provide kaputtnik with targets for an attack.

WorldSavior could have blocked both passages and prolong the game / or prepare to attack for as long as he wanted.

Of course we could blame it on the map designer, but I think that the Widelands games would more interesting and dynamic if blocking the opponent is much more difficult or even impossible.

Edited: 2022-10-17, 06:47

Top Quote
tothxa
Avatar
Joined: 2021-03-24, 11:44
Posts: 452
OS: antix / Debian
Version: some new PR I'm testing
Ranking
Tribe Member
Posted at: 2022-10-17, 10:11

Sorry, can't edit the previous post. (too old?)

tothxa wrote:

So it's not the-x's actions that made me lose the battle for the fortification the second time, but the difference in the scheduling of my soldiers, which may or may not have been affected by the difference of my actions.

I've watched it even more closely, and I have found the difference: the soldiers for the sentry don't arrive by ship originally but I release them from the military sites around the port. So in the process of verifying what state got loaded I forgot about this and didn't free them up, that's why I couldn't launch the attack in time after the reload.


Top Quote
tothxa
Avatar
Joined: 2021-03-24, 11:44
Posts: 452
OS: antix / Debian
Version: some new PR I'm testing
Ranking
Tribe Member
Posted at: 2022-10-17, 10:20

Mars wrote:

WorldSavior could have blocked both passages and prolong the game / or prepare to attack for as long as he wanted.

Of course we could blame it on the map designer, but I think that the Widelands games would more interesting and dynamic if blocking the opponent is much more difficult or even impossible.

Well, this was what I tried to solve by editing the map for the tournament. I have only realised during training for this round that the map was too small for meaningful attacks by expeditions. But in the end I don't think it changed the outcome of any matches in this round. Even WorldSavior's block was far from the blocks in the first round.

Edited: 2022-10-17, 10:34

Top Quote
WorldSavior
Avatar
Joined: 2016-10-15, 03:10
Posts: 2095
OS: Linux
Version: Recent tournament version
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: Germany
Posted at: 2022-10-17, 16:54

Mars wrote:

Re: WorldSavior vs. kaputtnik

My first impression was to limit the range of military buildings to reachable territory, i.e. if a military building cannot attack a field, it cannot conquer it (e.g. behind rocks or water). Conquering would include water but not land fields only reachable by water.

I feels wrong to allow to block the opponent in a way that he cannot advance at all:

  • In the north, the fortification was shielded by rocks. There was no way of mining/cutting them for kaputtnik to attack the fortification, not even with scouts.
  • In the south, the fortification blocked important fields probably needed by kaputtnik to advance. WorldSavior even destroyed all military buildings on his side of the rocks to not provide kaputtnik with targets for an attack.

WorldSavior could have blocked both passages and prolong the game / or prepare to attack for as long as he wanted.

Yes, that was the plan. Amazons can just sit there and wait until the empire runs out of coal or even metal.

Of course we could blame it on the map designer, but I think that the Widelands games would more interesting and dynamic if blocking the opponent is much more difficult or even impossible.

Yes, more dynamic, but its the fault of the map, not of the game design.

Im against changing the game mechanics, as it currently allows various different strategies, depending on the map. Round 1 was a race to the rocks, round 4 was a race to the rocks with ships, but with the option to counter this with an aggressive expedition.


Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked

Top Quote
WorldSavior
Avatar
Joined: 2016-10-15, 03:10
Posts: 2095
OS: Linux
Version: Recent tournament version
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: Germany
Posted at: 2022-10-17, 16:54

tothxa wrote:

Sorry, can't edit the previous post. (too old?)

Probably. Normal users cant edit posts which are older than 24h.


Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked

Top Quote
the-x
Avatar
Joined: 2019-01-19, 12:23
Posts: 967
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Posted at: 2022-10-17, 20:56

WorldSavior wrote:

Yes, more dynamic, but its the fault of the map, not of the game design.

Im against changing the game mechanics, as it currently allows various different strategies, depending on the map. Round 1 was a race to the rocks, round 4 was a race to the rocks with ships, but with the option to counter this with an aggressive expedition.

If you are ready to face various strategies, you should probably play some of my newer maps 1v1 - they offer plenty of challenges, whereby i think that in any open i will win


Top Quote