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Topic: Tournament 2022

WorldSavior
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Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
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Posted at: 2022-09-08, 08:12

What will be the win condition for Inselkrieger? Blocking the middle island with a castle might be not such a big issue, but the map is very weird indeed.


Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2022-09-08, 10:12

WorldSavior wrote:

@hessenfarmer: May I ask you what stops you from declaring all the maps? Tournament is already running and being able to choose maps while it is running gives you an unfair advantage... At least that's my point of view...

It is just a massive lack of time to find and test a map suitable for my expectations.
It seems I failed already twice in choosing interesting maps. So I should try better and invest even more time in choosing the maps which I don't have, so this isn't an option.

I see following options: Just choose maps from their minimap or looking in the editor shortly. this will reveal the same problems as with my first 2 choices. So totally legitimate critics would arise.
I might choose maps that have been played in the last tournaments, but that seems boring to me, as playstyle might be just a copy from what had been successful the last times, and why playing different maps at all in this case.
I might choose maps that were suggested by you, but this would give you and other frequent multiplayers probably an advantage, as it seems they are played often in multiplayer. Furthermore I would not like the resulting gameplay.
I might resign from organising the tournament but this would probably leave some new players frustrated, as it costed them some time to find the confidence to participate.

So all options lead to the point of me (and probably you and the other players) being frustrated. That was never my intention to cause such a situation, but it seems I can't do anything about it. Only thing is to say sorry and thinking about which (bad) way to proceed.

So to all participants I just have to excuse myself for causing so much trouble.

Edited: 2022-09-08, 10:27

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2022-09-08, 10:16

tothxa wrote:

hessenfarmer wrote:

Ok,
for the friends of smaller maps I found an interesting one for Round 2:

https://www.widelands.org/maps/inselkrieger/

If no objections until Sunday this will be round 2.

I know it's too late, but I've just tested that this map has a major imbalance for the players: blue can block the small middle island by building a castle at the nearest big spot on his island, while red can't do the same. The ruin and the artifact must be removed to:

  1. make it balanced
  2. make it impossible to block the middle island from either mainland

Even then the middle island is a too strong choke point again. Do we want this, or should the middle island be increased?

Mining resources are also very different. Red has much better access to iron and coal, but almost no stones (at least for the tribes that actually need it).

I'm also not quite sure about the balance of the starting positions. I think blue is noticeably better. Maybe red's starting hexagon should be exchanged with his forest hexagon.

And I've just noticed that red's South and South-East hexagons are smaller than the others. (so it's not just the direction that makes his starting position so bad then)

Sorry I did not recognize this. I will check. Feel free to provide a corrected version if you like


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tothxa
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Posted at: 2022-09-08, 10:29

hessenfarmer wrote:

Feel free to provide a corrected version if you like

I already started. I need to check the starting positions in action before I upload it. Unfortunately the two islands have small differences that make it very hard to make them identical without redoing one of them almost completely, but I think it'll be all right.

I copied the mining resources mostly from the blue island. I like how coal and iron will require trade-offs. face-smile.png I hope that may be the kind of thing you are looking for.


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2022-09-08, 10:29

WorldSavior wrote:

What will be the win condition for Inselkrieger? Blocking the middle island with a castle might be not such a big issue, but the map is very weird indeed.

As I am not sure anymore this map is suitable I can't choose for a Win condition. Sorry again. Maybe I should postpone the tournamant after round 1? I don't know really what to do.


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tothxa
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Posted at: 2022-09-08, 10:48

hessenfarmer wrote:

I might choose maps that were suggested by you, but this would give you and other frequent multiplayers probably an advantage, as it seems they are played often in multiplayer. Furthermore I would not like the resulting gameplay.

I think something similar in style to WorldSaviour's suggestions could be used for the last round (and the tie-breaker round if needed) so that mastery of standard gameplay can make the final decision to satisfy the old pros. But I agree with you that we should aim for good looks too. It also shouldn't be too big, like his Power Map.

the-x's Euphrat and Tigris would also be a possibility for standard gameplay, except he would have a very strong advantage on it…

How about using old maps with different win conditions than before?

So to all participants I just have to excuse myself for causing so much trouble.

To me, there was no trouble at all, and I appreciate your work organising the tournament. Thank you for it.


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tothxa
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Posted at: 2022-09-08, 10:54

hessenfarmer wrote:

WorldSavior wrote:

What will be the win condition for Inselkrieger? Blocking the middle island with a castle might be not such a big issue, but the map is very weird indeed.

As I am not sure anymore this map is suitable I can't choose for a Win condition. Sorry again.

It's so small that I don't think any other than autocrat makes sense. We just have to make it impossible to block, then it can be a nice speed-game.

Maybe I should postpone the tournamant after round 1? I don't know really what to do.

Please don't. face-smile.png


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tothxa
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Posted at: 2022-09-08, 11:21

Sorry for the many posts. I forgot this in the erlier reply, but it's more than just an edit.

hessenfarmer wrote:

It seems I failed already twice in choosing interesting maps.

I don't think you failed. As I said before, it'll be quite interesting to see all the races in this week's matches. We'll probably even see the kind of fights you were looking for on this map when there is no clear winner in the race or the two races have opposite results. And getting to this point will take about an hour (my time was 1:30), which is already a satisfying game with a lot of suspense.

So don't despair, we need you in a good mood to have an interesting match today evening. face-smile.png

Edited: 2022-09-08, 11:52

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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2022-09-08, 13:09

@hessenfarmer: It's not a big deal. I'm sorry for writing about the map problem in the forum instead of simply asking you in a private message. Thanks for your efforts.

tothxa wrote:

It's so small that I don't think any other than autocrat makes sense. We just have to make it impossible to block, then it can be a nice speed-game.

I disagree: I think that autocrat doesn't make sense because you cant expand beyond the middle island.


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tothxa
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Posted at: 2022-09-08, 13:58

OK, I've uploaded Inselkrieger with my edits. I think my anti-blocking edits already made sure you can get beyond the middle island.

starting positions and middle island

edit: Oops, I forgot to actually test those anti-blocking edit before uploading. Tested now: they're not enough. I tried adding some immovables at the nearest big spots to prevent castles, but they're not quite enough, need to work on them more, but then that changes the map too much… face-sad.png

Edited: 2022-09-08, 14:35

Attachment: inselkrieger_mod.png (581.9 KB)

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