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Topic: I'm surprised

Nordfriese
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Joined: 2017-01-17, 18:07
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Posted at: 2021-07-30, 12:37

The random map generator is still a beta feature. It was initially intended to be used in the editor to create a ± beautiful baseplate for a map which then required further adjustments by the map maker. The feature to directly start a match from a newly created random map is fairly new and the generator is often unable to create a properly balanced map, so these maps can tend to be quite tricky to play. As it is I'd recommend to play the official maps first, and move on to random maps when you've gathered some more experience and look for a challenge harder than what the normal maps offer.


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simplypeachy
Joined: 2009-04-23, 12:42
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Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted at: 2021-07-30, 23:54

With regards to mines and other buildings needing upgrades and workers needing experience: this game mechanic was present for the original three tribes (Atlantean, Empire, Barbarian) with the concept that some civilisations are more advanced but have more complex production chains. Barbarians require frequent upgrades, with simpler economies as they are a cruder culture. Atlanteans have greater technological prowess: their mines and miners are more effective but players need to put more consideration into the production chain.

I can't speak for the newer tribes and whether this game mechanic has been followed - but there is a reason behind these parts of the game.


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Nazeth
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Joined: 2021-07-28, 22:25
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2021-07-31, 03:43

From my perspective barbarians have quite simple food chain and they are very easy nation.

i need the most upgraded taverns, farms, bakery, one small brewery, rest big ones. Meat production isn't that hard after a while with quite big territory (i prefer their meet production than looking for space for pigs and farms) and food managament. Mine upgrades aren't problematic, but rather makes me angry to manage miners between mines face-grin.png Anyway worth that 10% chance for mine something after being depleted. Because every mine consume dishes and beer i don't need to care about optimise multiple food chains (extra wine for romans ect).

Also quite important advantage for me is their upgradeable weapon smith. it allows me to quite easily manage materials by having all 3 of them with different priorities to prioritize different tasks.

The only disadvantage what i found on them are expensive military structures.

Edited: 2021-07-31, 06:15

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Nazeth
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Joined: 2021-07-28, 22:25
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2021-07-31, 08:59

https://i.imgur.com/kpX0rQU.png

looks like even S2 tricks working there. 100% farms on such small and organised space.

I must try to organize whole nation like that next time... xD

Edited: 2021-07-31, 09:26

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Nazeth
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Joined: 2021-07-28, 22:25
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2021-07-31, 09:13

btw. Is there an option to change soldier ui to something that can be more pleasing to the eyes? like numbers and colours instead of symbols?

Edited: 2021-07-31, 09:58

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the-x
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Joined: 2019-01-19, 13:23
Posts: 820
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Posted at: 2021-07-31, 12:07

For playtime and on the playing side of widelands im probably the most experienced player and i also see some at first sight, if you play rarely or in singeplayer small but when you play it to an "mathematical-optimized" level more intense unbalancings especially in towers or the costs when it comes to upgrade your soldiers. If anyone likes to have a game whether for fun or for balancing reasons "to show" just write me ; )


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the-x
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Joined: 2019-01-19, 13:23
Posts: 820
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One Elder of Players
Posted at: 2021-07-31, 12:08

Nazeth wrote:

btw. Is there an option to change soldier ui to something that can be more pleasing to the eyes? like numbers and colours instead of symbols?

yes, these symbols are very small and not good for the eyes and also keep the attention from the graphics


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the-x
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Joined: 2019-01-19, 13:23
Posts: 820
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Posted at: 2021-07-31, 12:13

Nazeth wrote: The only disadvantage what i found on them are expensive military structures.

Yes, military structures make the barbarians in competitive games not really playabable, for example the fortress costs almost double as much resources as the atlantean fortress and needs an upgrade and almost double building time but can handly also only the same amount of soldiers (12) - i mean imbalances are in every game okay, but small differences.


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Nazeth
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Joined: 2021-07-28, 22:25
Posts: 19
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2021-07-31, 16:20

For me if i've see that 4 players choose the same faction on tournament and many times other players repeat, that one faction is better on multiplayer, than other ones without any alternatives and with solid arguments, then balance is broken and it require quick fixes.

It can't be like other factions "just exists" to increase amount of possible chooses for fun face-grin.png

For example after few games as Imperium i think they are unviable on maps with low resources or maps with equal resources for each player. Everyone can average mine few ores per mine on low resources and then spot is depleted. Then they have just mere 5% chance to mine something, when other factions can double amount of gathered ores and outnumber them over time. That mean Imperium must expand fast and play aggressive to control more mine spots. Of course, if map have something like contested ore spot between players.

I played twice as Frisians and i will never came back to them. their economy is overcomplicated. it's hard to optimise their chains and control free space between foresters, farms, clay pits and belly plantations. They also don't fit with my 4x4 building strategy with such huge radius.

After few games as Barbarians i preferred them for their ore gathering speed on long time games and quite controllable material spending, but first contact with enemies is very painful. AI build towers much faster than me so im often losing them under construction after assault. I think that real players will be even more cruel against them. That means i need to prepare my defence lines earlier. It's very costly and it will make my economy worse in competitive games, so it's huge disadvantage.

Atlantians have definitely too cheap buildings, that allow me to expand and growth very fast. First contact with enemy is often ended with Blitzkrieg before they can prepare defence lines, what give me huge advantage in early phase. If i will keep that advantage to take next towers, then beating the AI is just a matter of time. It's like punching a kid, that hasn't time to reinforce towers with fresh recruits, so i don't need to waste time on preparations and resources to break enemy fortified lines, because i can just outnumber enemy in first battle and then keep that quantity advantage over time.

The best results i had, when i can quickly outnumber enemies during first contact and Atlanteans are definitely the best in it, so i understand why they are preferable choice. Other factions are unique and that's cool, but they can't stay in the shadow of one faction.

Settlers 4 have similar problem, but factions have less unique mechanics. The most preferable choice are Romans and Mayans, because they have economy based on stones and stone harvest is much faster, when Trojans and Vikings are more wood oriented that makes their economy much slower. On last S4 tournament i saw only one main Trojan player and few Vikings, who were just outnumbered and beaten by Roman spam, that prepared economy much faster than them. The best is that was just difference in building costs and building speed that allow them to build faster than difference in pure skill. The same issue has Widelands, because some factions can reach mile stones during game much faster than other ones.

Edited: 2021-08-01, 11:07

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Nazeth
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Joined: 2021-07-28, 22:25
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Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2021-08-01, 15:48

If 2 mines of the same type share their mining area, then after being depleted they have lower chance to get extra ore?


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