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Topic: Desires and Necessities

Atanase
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Posted at: 2021-04-27, 01:37

Hello,

Gentlemen, Elders, can you, as a result of your great experience, communicate to us, poor stammering neophytes that we are, the number of Taverns, Inns and Big Inns necessary to meet the needs of the brave miners who work for our greater glory?
Or, if you prefer, how many first level mines can a well-stocked Tavern support? face-smile.png

Don't worry, I'm not crazy, I'm in the mood for fun tonight. face-smile.png face-smile.png


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kaputtnik
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Posted at: 2021-04-27, 09:03

I think both questions can't be answered correctly, because it makes no sense to split off one single part of the economy network with ideally ("well-stocked Tavern") assumptions.

E.g. a Tavern which produces Rations may works fine for all your miners, but if you build a Scout some miners may lacks Rations because Rations are also consumed by a Scout. Same applies to the Taverns input wares which are also needed for a Battle Arena or a Trainingscamp. So after building a trainigscamp the tavern may lacks input wares, because they are needed by the trainingscamp....

For me this is one of the fun in playing widelands: Managing you economy depends on the circumstances (the shape of the map, the available resources, personal play style). Of course there might be some rule of thumbs...


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Atanase
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Posted at: 2021-04-27, 10:18

Hello,

I understand your doubts that my question is only aimed at mines and not at all those who consume rations. But I didn't want to ask too many questions at the same time so as not to panic anyone. face-wink.png

I also understand the fact that you appreciate always having to adapt to circumstances, I like that too, but to adapt effectively I need to have at least a vague idea (rule of thumb) of imperatives. Otherwise it would be like playing poker without knowing the rules, failing to know the distribution statistics, all the chances of being the pigeon of the day.

In addition, product manufacturing times come into play and it is not easy to calculate, even by drawing in the 'init.lua' files of each building.

I'm not asking for a statement set in stone, but just a feeling from the experience. face-wink.png


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tothxa
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Posted at: 2021-04-27, 10:53

I think that discovering these things for yourself by experimenting is part of the fun of a game like this. And indeed, you'll never get a chance to do it cleanly, with the ideal ratios of production, so there's no point in knowing exact numbers.

Here's a tip though from someone who is relatively new to Widelands, but who had played a lot of Settlers more than 20 years ago, and played through all the tutorials and most of the campaigns in Widelands, as well as some standalone games on maps with very different setups:

It's practically impossible to fill multiple consumers of a ware to the default, very high amount of local storage. When all consumers want to run on full stock, some of them will use much more than some of the others (as pointed out by kaputtnik, this depends on way too many factors). To get a better balance, you should first decrease the allowed local storage for all of them. Then you may try to adjust the priorities as well, if you still have problems. Otherwise you would need massive oversupply of the ware to satisfy all consumers with maximum local stock capacity.

You should also play a lot with a certain tribe to learn its optimal priorities, AND how it changes even over the course of a single game. There are lots of minor details that you'll never understand properly from other players' descriptions, only from your own experience. Just like real life... face-wink.png


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2021-04-27, 11:34

Well for the mine / tavern pair this might be easily calculated from the init lua files of the buildings. (calculating the performance and showing them in the help is on of our most ancient features which nobody implemented yet. The problem gets more complicated if we have buildings where the worker has to walk to his location of work (e.g. Farms) as walking distances differ and affect the performance.
Furthermore the bigger problem in supplying all sites up to 100% performance is the transport of wares. especially when ports come to work and the economy is very wide spread.


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Atanase
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Posted at: 2021-04-27, 11:45

I'm not here to 'play' like in real life. For that, I have what I need at home. face-wink.png

I am a real 'bookworm' and my pleasure is precisely to discover the mechanisms which underlie the actions of the games. If I'm a fan of Sid Meier's Civilization it's precisely because of trying to understand the game I managed to win every time in the most difficult mode. I took almost 10 years to achieve this result but given my current age I don't know if I would still have 10 years to discover everything here. face-smile.png

Another reason is that I am working on a scenario that will not be easy to play. For that, I therefore have to cleverly place spaces to build large structures, but not too much. I want the player to be forced to make difficult choices in setting up the Economy.

So, be sure that I have my good reasons to ask these kind of questions. face-wink.png


La connaissance ne vaut que si elle est partagée par le plus grand nombre.
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Atanase
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Posted at: 2021-04-27, 11:55

Atanase wrote:

..... how many first level mines can a well-stocked Tavern support?

In my first post I precised "well-stocked Tavern" because I know that the first problem is here. It is my method to solve a problem, I start from the end and ask me : What do I need to do that? And little to little I walk to the beginning. So here I start by 1st Mines' level even if I know that, for levels 2 and 3 , we need water and wheat for beer, pitta, ......


La connaissance ne vaut que si elle est partagée par le plus grand nombre.
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Atanase
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Posted at: 2021-04-27, 19:39

Hello,

As I'm reading the "init.lua" files of all the buildings to synthesize What is needed to create What and How many are necessary, I can have a look on the time needed.
If somebody says me where I can find the function "callworker=..." identified in the function "program" of the "init.lua" and the unit of the "sleep=...." I can do some computations.
It is quite clear that I will start with those which have already been done to validate my way of calculating.


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kaputtnik
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Posted at: 2021-04-27, 20:27

You may take a look at Production site programs

You don't have have to know it, you just have to know where it is documented face-grin.png


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Atanase
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Posted at: 2021-04-27, 21:51

Yes, but this don't give me the name of the file where I can find the program "plant"

         actions = {
            "callworker=plant",
            "animate=working 7000",
            "sleep=3000"
         }

in the "init.lua" of the farm.

I need to read what it does to see if there is some sleep, or other like animation, time to add to the global processes of the Farmer.
I could spent my time to search it but I think that I can use this time more efficiently.

Farm and Farmer are only example, I have to do that for ALL the Production Buildings.


La connaissance ne vaut que si elle est partagée par le plus grand nombre.
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Knowledge is only valuable if it is shared by the greatest number.

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