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Topic: Damned geologists

Atanase
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Joined: 2021-04-15, 13:33
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Posted at: 2021-04-24, 18:49

Hello,

To have the mountains analyzed by my brilliant geologists, I build a temporary road that leads them to the top of the mountain, otherwise they just look for water in the valley.

They never test the 'spots' on the road.
Is it my method that is bad or their professional conscience that is lost?


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2021-04-24, 19:10

In current master, a geologist looks for ores in mountainous terrain if at least 1 of the 6 triangles around the flag is mountain; otherwise for water in non-mountain terrain. In build 21 this distinction is handled a bit differently.

If they search for ores, they also include the border region of the mountain (nodes where mountainous and non-mountainous terrains meet), and in such nodes there might be ores or water.

That they don't test the spots on the road is intentional – how would they be able to dig through it and then place a sign? There's a road in the way.


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Atanase
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Posted at: 2021-04-24, 19:37

I understand but if I send them just at the beginning of the mountains, 3 / 4 search for water and only one for ore.
And if I send another expedition they stay all in the valley because, for them, they saw all there was to see and they go back to the headquarters very soon.
Should I take a whip to make them explore the mountain? It's really not in my nature. face-wink.png face-wink.png
To be really precise I must say that the only region that interests me, and I'm sure other players, is the one where there are possibilities to create mines, but to make them understand that, it is not easy. face-wink.png


La connaissance ne vaut que si elle est partagée par le plus grand nombre.
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Knowledge is only valuable if it is shared by the greatest number.

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OIPUN
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Posted at: 2021-04-25, 07:12

I am a player and I am completely fine with the way geologists work. I was always able to realize where should I build a mine.

https://www.widelands.org/forum/attachment/1398e387876e2cd45c07d827057201e66b0db5f0/

Edited: 2021-04-25, 07:25

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Atanase
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Posted at: 2021-04-25, 08:06

Yes, you was always able to realize where should you build a mine, which is your goal, we agree.

I never ask to change the way geologist work. I try to understand this way.
I'm wondering : Ok, they move randomly, but in what radius?
From where? Their actual position or the point where they have been call? What is the circumstance that pushes them to return to the headquarter? Is it a number of analyze?

In my first post I said : "Is it my method that is bad?"
I do not claim to have absolute knowledge since I myself question my choices.
And I added "or their professional conscience that is lost?".
Sorry I if it was not clear but I I was trying to add a dash of humor by speaking of "professional conscience", which, on the part of fictional characters is not really suitable since they cannot have conscience.

Coming up with humor in English when you speak French isn't particularly easy. I'll try to do better next time. face-wink.png


La connaissance ne vaut que si elle est partagée par le plus grand nombre.
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OIPUN
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Posted at: 2021-04-25, 08:17

Well I see this game is a mystery but it seems we are a little bit closer to answer some of its questions.


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Atanase
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Posted at: 2021-04-25, 10:19

Nordfriese wrote:

That they don't test the spots on the road is intentional – how would they be able to dig through it and then place a sign? There's a road in the way.

We known how to make mining galleries and horizontal boreholes (water, oil) for a very long time. It's not so stupid to test even under buildings. Already in 1999, horizontal drilling of more than 10 km was carried out in Argentina. I know very well that the Barbarians don't have our technology, but mine galleries of several hundred meters were dug by Neolithic men. face-wink.png

At the beginning of metallurgy, around 2000 BC, they were already following the seams of coal or iron ore. Even the barbarians are capable of doing the same. face-wink.png


La connaissance ne vaut que si elle est partagée par le plus grand nombre.
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Knowledge is only valuable if it is shared by the greatest number.

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impactus
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Posted at: 2021-04-25, 11:32

When I started playing, I had the expectation the geologists would explore randomly inside some radius. Took me a while to realize it's not bad luck that sometimes they explore everything but the mountains. Now I don't risk putting the flag on the edge anymore, and I guess it's nice that I can limit them to checking mountains.

However, the thing with the roads (and the flag itself) is real. In settlers I would often put the flag outside of the mountains for that reason, and send far too many geologists to compensate the imprecision. I think with the road and the flag in the way, you can easily miss the perfect spots for your mines. Intuitively you are kind of blocking the best spots in the middle, and then it becomes kind of a gamble if you put a mine there with incomplete data.

But whatever, it kind of works out. I just take care I put the flag just inside the mountain (I don't trust a flag directly on the edge), minimize the path, and also at a spot where no mine spots are obstructed - so that I can start building mines before sending home the geologists.

Which, by the way, you can do by destroying the flag. I also think they stay longer if they don't get another job to do. Also, they don't return home before taking another job, which is really useful to micromanage all this (at least if you're exploring only one site). You can destroy the flag, send them to another one there, and you'll lose barely any time. Can also be useful if you're still low on tools.

I wonder if you can remove the road (but not the flag) once the geologist is working. Think I haven't tried that yet.

Another related thing I do, when I explore with geologists, I build mines in good spots that they found, even if I don't need them. I just don't connect them, so they don't get built. When I need more mines, I can just connect one, instead of gambling the position based on memory or sending more geologists.

What I don't like that much is, they aren't that useful when the ground isn't untouched. There are only two possible results (some, lots of), and that means the upper third can be fully depleted and it still says lots of. It might be better if they could only look at the upper layer. How would they even look deeper. The change could largely go unnoticed as long as there is a consistent relation between how much is in the upper layer and how much is in the deeper layers. But then you could look for untouched spots in that mountain you shallow-mined through. Anyway, just some thought I keep having, not sure if it would be an improvement or just fitting a case I once had. Maybe the signs should just carry more information (at least 3 grades, maybe additional information about depth).

And while I'm at it, I sometimes think mines run out too quickly for my taste. Like, once my economy is good, the mines run out in no time, throwing me off balance again. I wonder how it would afffect the game if you could extend deeper mines again and again at growing extension costs (but with the same food consumption / mining efficiency as deeper mines). Oh well, again, just thinking about it.

Edited: 2021-04-25, 11:35

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Atanase
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Posted at: 2021-04-25, 12:00

face-wink.png

Don't worry, I use the same trick and put 'not connected mines', at least to remember where I must dig, because opening all the possible mines at the same moment is ruinous for the economy. face-wink.png

When you find a spot the only thing you know is if it is filled by less or more than 10 units. Till 10 included it says : Ore, more than 10 : Lot of Ore. But it can go from 11 to the maximum possible. I asked the question in another post.
What is the maximum? I don't know yet, I have to see in the Editor how much is it. face-wink.png


La connaissance ne vaut que si elle est partagée par le plus grand nombre.
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Knowledge is only valuable if it is shared by the greatest number.

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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2021-04-25, 12:04

Atanase wrote:

What is the maximum? I don't know yet, I have to see in the Editor how much is it. face-wink.png

As I said, "lots of" indicates up to 20, and there isnt anything higher than "lots of". So 20 is the maximum ; )


Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked

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