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Topic: Who uses charcoal burners

kaputtnik
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Posted at: 2021-04-04, 18:17

I have the feeling that charcoal burners are not used much often. And they are really ineffective, at least the empire charcoal burner.

Should they be more effective? Say making coal out of 3 logs instead of 6?


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2021-04-04, 18:28

As long as one has a good number of functional coal mines, one doesn't need charcoal kilns, and I guess one would still not use them if they were cheaper.
They are really needed only on maps with little coal in the ground. I often build lots of charcoal kilns on such maps, but only later in the game, when I invariably have thousands of logs in my warehouses. Then they ensure a steady coal supply, and their relative inefficiency and expensiveness does not matter since you should by then have the resources to easily afford running many of them.

So I think they are fine as they are. Also, making them more efficient would disadvantage the Frisians, whose cheaper and faster charcoal kilns are unique among the tribes.


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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2021-04-04, 19:51

Nordfriese wrote:

As long as one has a good number of functional coal mines, one doesn't need charcoal kilns, and I guess one would still not use them if they were cheaper.
They are really needed only on maps with little coal in the ground. I often build lots of charcoal kilns on such maps, but only later in the game, when I invariably have thousands of logs in my warehouses. Then they ensure a steady coal supply, and their relative inefficiency and expensiveness does not matter since you should by then have the resources to easily afford running many of them.

So I think they are fine as they are. Also, making them more efficient would disadvantage the Frisians, whose cheaper and faster charcoal kilns are unique among the tribes.

+1


Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2021-04-05, 21:07

Nordfriese wrote:

As long as one has a good number of functional coal mines, one doesn't need charcoal kilns, and I guess one would still not use them if they were cheaper.
They are really needed only on maps with little coal in the ground. I often build lots of charcoal kilns on such maps, but only later in the game, when I invariably have thousands of logs in my warehouses. Then they ensure a steady coal supply, and their relative inefficiency and expensiveness does not matter since you should by then have the resources to easily afford running many of them.

So I think they are fine as they are. Also, making them more efficient would disadvantage the Frisians, whose cheaper and faster charcoal kilns are unique among the tribes.

That would have been exactly my reply as well.
Maybe this would make for a nice little economy tournament As we hadn't one since some time. Do we have a no coal map anywhere?


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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2021-04-05, 21:14

hessenfarmer wrote:

Nordfriese wrote:

As long as one has a good number of functional coal mines, one doesn't need charcoal kilns, and I guess one would still not use them if they were cheaper.
They are really needed only on maps with little coal in the ground. I often build lots of charcoal kilns on such maps, but only later in the game, when I invariably have thousands of logs in my warehouses. Then they ensure a steady coal supply, and their relative inefficiency and expensiveness does not matter since you should by then have the resources to easily afford running many of them.

So I think they are fine as they are. Also, making them more efficient would disadvantage the Frisians, whose cheaper and faster charcoal kilns are unique among the tribes.

That would have been exactly my reply as well.
Maybe this would make for a nice little economy tournament As we hadn't one since some time. Do we have a no coal map anywhere?

Pick that and remove the coal? : )


Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked

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einstein13
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Posted at: 2021-04-06, 16:45

hessenfarmer wrote:

Maybe this would make for a nice little economy tournament As we hadn't one since some time. Do we have a no coal map anywhere?

https://www.widelands.org/maps/colonies_nocoal/

Probably also a very good fit for this type of the tournament: managing country split betweens different sites, boats and so on. I can't remember exactly how was the coal supply in the starting position resolved, but for sure in the other part of the world, there is no coal at all, but plenty of room for trees.


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kaputtnik
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Posted at: 2021-04-06, 17:51

hessenfarmer wrote:

Maybe this would make for a nice little economy tournament As we hadn't one since some time.

Very good idea!


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treehugger
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Posted at: 2021-04-09, 21:44

Another use for the charcoal burners is when coal deposits are very far away and you need a little bit of coal in the beginning of the game to get your economy started. You only need a bit of extra coal for some tools and lime, so efficiency does not matter much. You only need about 10 to 20 extra coal for some buildings and tools.

Later in the game the coals goes to weapons production and the foot production to train the soldiers, but neither of those are applicable without having iron ore too.


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littlekatana
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Posted at: 2021-11-17, 17:53

Nordfriese wrote:

As long as one has a good number of functional coal mines, one doesn't need charcoal kilns, and I guess one would still not use them if they were cheaper.
They are really needed only on maps with little coal in the ground. I often build lots of charcoal kilns on such maps, but only later in the game, when I invariably have thousands of logs in my warehouses. Then they ensure a steady coal supply, and their relative inefficiency and expensiveness does not matter since you should by then have the resources to easily afford running many of them.

So I think they are fine as they are. Also, making them more efficient would disadvantage the Frisians, whose cheaper and faster charcoal kilns are unique among the tribes.

This makes a lot of sense to me. However...

What if building spots are in short supply, rather than coal deposits? Right now, I am having a problem where I can't get enough coal from mines because I can't make enough rations and meals, because I can't get enough bred, flour, and ultimately, wheat, because of the aforementioned building spots. I do have a ton of small building plots, and quite a few medium building plots. I would assume this was the case for most maps, yes? I seems reasonable to me to fill all of those small (otherwise useless, as far as I can tell) building plots with lumberjacks and foresters.

Is there any calculation that shows how many charcoal burners needed to match the coal mine production?


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2021-11-17, 17:58

The ratio is different for each tribe. E.g. the barbarian charcoal kiln needs 120 s for 1 coal, while the barbarian coal mine produces 2 coal in 75 s, assuming steady supply. Charcoal kilns are slow (except for frisians – theirs are better and much faster), so you should build several dozens for every handful of mines provided you can supply them all.


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