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Topic: Timer to reduce Economy / Military problem

the-x
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Joined: 2019-01-19, 13:23
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Posted at: 2020-08-06, 21:56

What about a timer to make fast rushes more difficult, like at the beginning the attacker has only 50% attack value?

We need to strenghten Economy face-wink.png many Ideas welcomed

It will raise every 10 minutes 5% or it will raise every 10 gold stored 5% till 100%


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2020-08-06, 22:18

Any concepts will need to fit in with the general style and logic of Widelands. Requiring a certain amount of gold to be stored to raise soldiers' attack value is not logical. A timer is not a bad idea, but it could be interpreted the wrong way around: It would seem as if the attack strength automatically and without any action from the player strengthens over time.


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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2020-08-06, 23:17

-1 to all concepts in this thread, except for the concept that new concepts should fit well to Widelands

Edited: 2020-08-06, 23:18

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the-x
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Posted at: 2020-08-07, 01:41

world savior, instead of always blocking how about constructive


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niektory
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Posted at: 2020-08-07, 04:01

There are maps with no early contact. You could also make one (maybe there is one?) where early attacks can only be made with a very small force because of limited building spaces between players' territories.


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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2020-08-07, 07:32

But - isn't that what training and barracks are for?

If it needs nerfing, then we could always have less soldiers in the headquarters.

And I think that some risk of rush is fine - this means that you have to be on your toes for the early economy was well, and not just for the late game.

Also, you can play collectors in peaceful.

Edited: 2020-08-07, 07:32

Busy indexing nil values

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Tribal-Chief
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Posted at: 2020-08-07, 10:21

This topic highlights the biggest problem that WL has. It seems almost everyone begins a game with the headquarters start condition, I regard headquarters as the new player introduction or cheat mode.

While the peacefull village start my be too extreme for combat orientated players there should be no enhanced workers in a start condition, far fewer soldiers, perhaps 10 max., and training for workers should be a lot longer. It is perfectly possible to have 30 or 40 as the worker upgrades, I use 50. This simple change means you must concentrate on the economy early, you do not have excess soldiers untill you build and supply a barracks and training sites to upgrade soldiers will take even longer. It also seems logical that soldier training should not be carried out by a carrier with a weapon but by an existing soldier, a core code change is needed to allow trainers to be created from soldiers.


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the-x
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Posted at: 2020-08-07, 11:26

Yes this seems to be the main problem. Everyone is carefully building up his economy and then the moment comes where it all gets destroyed in mostly one fast 1 minute attack. -> Solution: Focus on Economy, strenghten Defense - in the beginning, but at the end there should be a clear winner. Maybe many waves needed, still a stage where you dont know who the winner is.

GunChleoc wrote:

And I think that some risk of rush is fine - this means that you have to be on your toes for the early economy was well, and not just for the late game.

I like this Idea, since it means players have to be fit in the beginning and over time


I collected Ideas, that have been brought up and might help to find a solution / new solution / Ideas to this Topic:

  • We need to find small Improvements to make levelling the first stages cheaper and faster and on the highest levels more expensive and complicated

--> Easy to implement:

axe1: 1 coal

axe2: 1 coal + 1 iron

axe3: 3 coal + 2 iron

axe4: 3 coal + 2 iron + 1 gold

axe5: 3 coal + 5 iron + 5 gold or if possible to implement: axe5: 2 coal + 2 iron + 1 diamond

Nice wareflow

--> Execellent step by step levelling, which gives nice flows for your economy

  • Focus on Economy more than on military

--> Slow down fights to 1/4 --> Set moving speed of soldiers to 1/4

this reduces stress and gives more time to react and more time to watch widelands

  • Expansion might be a bit boring by building 10 barracks in a row on every medium to large map

--> radius of barrracs and towers, fortress +2

who has a better problem solution for this?

  • We must find a way that ships can be build earlier in the game

Half the cost of a harbor, harbor needs no more gold, solved the problem to wait extremly long time for 2nd harbor and the impossibility of leveling and building a harbor the same time

I like this Idea very much, since for 1 i can also try new thngs like fastproduce coal with a charcoal burner and then we have a nice way ro get to the mines. For 2 i already need to get some Iron. For 3 i am thinking abaout making a massive production, which then follows if i have a nice settlement. For Axe 4 its an important step, i need to find gold. And for 5 we chan choose what is easier to implement, we can either just change the costs to make it higher and therefore it allows thousands of new strategies just by changing the numbers or another rare ressource like like, which indeed isnt really rare these days, but should be in early versions of SirVer, had some nice conversations with him, so stage 5 you will only get to if you find the rare ressource diamond.

If we let it with

1 iron 1 coal

2 iron 2 coal

3 iron 3 coal

3 iron 3 coal 1 gold

3 iron 3 coal 2 gold

It is just linear, not much multiplayer fun

Alternatively, you can do it in such a way that the building is not expanded, but the person inside belongs to different personal experiences

Concrete: Trident - Level 0 Verb. Trident - Level 8 Steel Trident - Level 16 Verb Double Trident - Level 32

This helps a lot to do justice to the accelerating hero of the Atlanteans problem. Different claims it was that "is paradox as a hero" Reparation always the next level only after the time (30 min, 45 min, 1h) becomes possible.

Edited: 2020-08-07, 11:28

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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2020-08-07, 11:54

Repeating yourself will not improve the ideas themselves. What you are suggesting here you already suggested before (you seem to have copied it almost word for word) and the majority of the community clearly disapproved.


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the-x
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Joined: 2019-01-19, 13:23
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Posted at: 2020-08-07, 18:36

Its more about collecting Ideas face-wink.png what are yours to the balance topic?


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