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Topic: Maps overhaul for build21

kaputtnik
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Joined: 2013-02-18, 20:48
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Posted at: 2020-03-03, 18:18

Just a new thread for the discussion which came up in Resource allokation for map makers

Nordfriese wrote:

I would like to propose the following maps:

  • Astoria: very beautiful, though it might be advisable to remove the artefacts and add ferries

  • Long long way: my favourite map face-smile.png long games, perfectly balanced, can get rather tricky in the late game, perhaps more port spaces would be good

  • Europa: unbalanced but makes for interesting games, offers practically all difficulty levels from easy to quite tricky, plus it looks great


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GunChleoc
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Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56
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Posted at: 2020-03-04, 10:54

Long, long way was removed for Build 19. https://www.widelands.org/forum/topic/1917/?page=1#post-16294


Busy indexing nil values

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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2020-03-04, 11:05

Why on earth was this great map ever removed? face-shock.png
Someone must have added it in the first place, and I think in the thread is no discussion at all about this map except that it's author calls it flat and boring ( face-sad.png ) which I don't think at all – I'm in favour of readding it


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teppo
Joined: 2012-01-30, 09:42
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Posted at: 2020-03-04, 18:54

I like to see some of the torture maps there.

Should there be a special mode for those maps: Single player only, the intended slot only, possibly access to hall-of-fame on website if completed (points by time to complete, or whatever associated script says).

At least in case of no-metal-challenge by K-o-N some lua to detect victory would be essential. In short, quite much coding.

Is it only me?


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niektory
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Posted at: 2020-03-04, 20:03

I also like the challenge maps, but unfortunately they don't always work as intended because of AI failures. It might be a good idea to test them with the current version before inclusion.


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2020-03-04, 20:10

Adding No Metal Challenge would be nice. Dust In The Wind is also a candidate IMHO.

Turning them into scenarios would be best, though unfortunately this would not allow players to select the tribe to play. We have an open bug report about allowing "random" tribe to be interpreted as "player's choice", but this will perhaps not be implemented for b21. So perhaps postpone challenge maps inclusion to b22?


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teppo
Joined: 2012-01-30, 09:42
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Posted at: 2020-03-09, 19:47

niektory wrote:

I also like the challenge maps, but unfortunately they don't always work as intended because of AI failures. It might be a good idea to test them with the current version before inclusion.

The Anchor was quite difficult when it appeared. Some time later, AI failed badly. Have not tried lately.

If the torture maps were converted into scenarios, then the script could also give some unfair advantage to the AI, on the less tortuous maps.


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teppo
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Posted at: 2020-03-09, 20:33

Not related to torture maps: Fellowships could be upgraded a bit: Expanding to the southern island requires many small military buildings, and one middle sized one.

The middle sized one was a bad choice. No problem once you know it, and forcing players to remember such a stupid detail is brain dead. It would be better if a small building could grab that step too. Is there a problem with upgrade?


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einstein13
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Joined: 2013-07-29, 00:01
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Posted at: 2020-03-09, 22:01

Nordfriese wrote:

except that it's author calls it flat and boring ( face-sad.png )

That is correct. The map was one of my first maps ever created and I am not happy with quality of this map. Lots of my further maps were much better and I can find even better maps of other people.

I would suggest to list all the maps that are currently in use (official ones). And some candidates too. I can also explain what were the purposes of each of my maps if needed.

For example:

The Nile - lots of resources, ships available (but not necessary). Equal starting positions, except two beginners: red and blue.

Wideworld - first attempt of making huge map Earth-like (starting position is like Europe, shapes are very different than reality - changed to make the map more challenging), for ships exploration and fighting overseas. This map is waiting for military expedition feature.

Ice Wars - I have seen a map that was for many players and they could fight in the middle. The name was something with Sun (Ancient god of Sun?). The map was good, but one of players could be impossible to fight with because the path was too narrow (he could build big building and close the path). So I wanted to fix this, move the starting positions closer to the center, use different biome (ice instead of wastelands) and make the possibility of very long game and short at once. You can start fighting soon after starting the game or you can wait till all of your land would be reached. Also ships are good to cooperate with your economy. I remember that it was supposed that only standard water (without floating ice) should be passable, but finally I thought it is a minor issue and nobody cares.


einstein13
calculations & maps packages: http://wuatek.no-ip.org/~rak/widelands/
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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2020-03-10, 18:32

einstein13 wrote:

Nordfriese wrote:

except that it's author calls it flat and boring ( face-sad.png )

That is correct. The map was one of my first maps ever created and I am not happy with quality of this map.

But why?

  • Resources are not hard to find, and they are plentiful where they are, but nonetheless they are not available in masses – an exciting combination not many maps have like this!

  • Enough space for buildings and farms, long coasts with much fish, so one is not hampered by lack of space, but there's not too much space like in e.g. Big Eden.

  • There are only ever 3-4 directions to expand to (left long way, right long way, and the enemy plain(s) straight ahead) – enough not to be boring but not so much that one never knows where to go next like in e.g. Ice Wars…

  • AI-friendly

  • And I especially like the "good-bad-good" transport network progression over the course of a game. First there are short ways and transport is easy to plan. Then the ways get longer and transport times shoot up horribly. Then when one has gone further, ports become useful, and since many far-away places are physically close, seafaring (especially of some more port spaces were added to the map) makes transport very efficient again. Not sure if you planned it that way but I love this unusual map feature


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