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Topic: Atlanteans 2

waldecker
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Joined: 2020-05-31, 21:15
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Location: Waldeck
Posted at: 2022-04-27, 21:39

Hi all,

what I've noticed so far (played the scenario twice):

  • when Jundlina talks to Opol about the spidercloths, the heading "New quest" is displayed, but there is no new quest (see screenshot)
  • My spiderfarm & weaving mill were completed after contact was established with the barbarians, so Jundlina was a hostage allready, but she speaks again with Opol
  • the mountain on the west side gives the impression there is a way through it, but the spots are to far away from each other (see sreenshot)
  • In my first try, I finished the trading post but had to wait for the horse farm to finish, this took some time and Kalitath raised the demands. In the second try, the scout contacted the barbarians, they stopped attacking me, but no ultimatums were given until the trading post was completed (I delayed it for more than 3h)
  • when the last warehouse of the Empire was destroyed, it is first told that the Atlanteans want to unite with the barbarians, then there is an error message "Lua Coroutine failed" (see screenshot)

One thing that is always with the Atlantians: Cornmeal can be limited in the goods settings, but not blackroot flour

Overall I like the mission. But, at the beginning, the quests come very quickly, you have a lot to accomplish, when you have fulfilled them (except the one "destroy the empire"), it gets a bit lengthy, because the paths are very long and towers have to be built again and again to find the next military buildings to conquer.

Cheers Waldecker

Edited: 2022-04-27, 21:40

Attachment: Screenshots.zip (2.5 MB)

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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
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Posted at: 2022-04-27, 22:05

many thanks for this detailed test report and sorry for the mistakes still contained.

waldecker wrote:

Hi all,

what I've noticed so far (played the scenario twice):

  • when Jundlina talks to Opol about the spidercloths, the heading "New quest" is displayed, but there is no new quest (see screenshot)

fixed that in a new push to the branch

  • My spiderfarm & weaving mill were completed after contact was established with the barbarians, so Jundlina was a hostage allready, but she speaks again with Opol

fixed that as well, it is now distinguished whether jundlina is in charge or Sidolus.

  • the mountain on the west side gives the impression there is a way through it, but the spots are to far away from each other (see sreenshot)

that is intentional, we are on a new island and not everything is as it looks like.

  • In my first try, I finished the trading post but had to wait for the horse farm to finish, this took some time and Kalitath raised the demands. In the second try, the scout contacted the barbarians, they stopped attacking me, but no ultimatums were given until the trading post was completed (I delayed it for more than 3h)

nice catch! I fixed this bug to be not abusable anymore.

  • when the last warehouse of the Empire was destroyed, it is first told that the Atlanteans want to unite with the barbarians, then there is an error message "Lua Coroutine failed" (see screenshot)

damn. I thought I fixed the root causeof such a crash but it seems I still need to investigate.
edit: found the error and fixed it.

One thing that is always with the Atlantians: Cornmeal can be limited in the goods settings, but not blackroot flour

this is not related to the scenario and intentional from a tribes perspective. Reason is that blackroot can't be used for anything else then blackroot flour while corn is neede for feeding horses and spiders as well, so no need to spare blackroot but every need to save some corn.

Overall I like the mission. But, at the beginning, the quests come very quickly, you have a lot to accomplish, when you have fulfilled them (except the one "destroy the empire"), it gets a bit lengthy, because the paths are very long and towers have to be built again and again to find the next military buildings to conquer.

any ideas for some intermediate quests are welcome I just ran out of ideas.

Cheers Waldecker

Agian many thanks for testing

Edited: 2022-04-27, 22:25

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waldecker
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Joined: 2020-05-31, 21:15
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Posted at: 2022-04-29, 11:37

Thanks for the fixes.

A few more observations

  • Time to deliver the ransom is very tight when one can not start right away and the ransom is doubled - Trader has to walk 28 times, ~2 Minutes per direction plus 30 seconds loading in Trading Post, so it takes ~2h to deliver the goods. I did not stop the time between the ransom calls, but maybe it should be increased a little bit, especially since the goods to be delivered are rare.
  • In the goods settings, the coins are set to the values for single ransom, if player does not increase it when the ransom is doubled, the trader stops delivering. Since this is a new setup, maybe a hint is useful. Also building a second trading post does not help to speed things up since always only one Trader is on the walk.
  • Jundlina talks about the woods and that there are so much trees, thats directing in the wrong direction, with 3 woodcutters and only one forester wood is constantly a rare good in the beginning
  • also iron is pretty far away from the harbor, it takes time to reach it
  • after about 3:50h game time the Empire was defeated by the barbarians, before I was even able to start to train soldiers, even before I finished delivering the goods
  • ~ 10 Minutes after the Empire is defeated, the Barbarians attack me, but I can't attack them (see screenshot)
  • sometimes (when loading a saved game) I get an Error Message "Lua Coroutine failed" (see screenshot)

Cheers Waldecker


Attachment: Screenshots_02.zip (2.1 MB)

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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
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Posted at: 2022-04-29, 14:39

waldecker wrote:

Thanks for the fixes.

A few more observations

  • Time to deliver the ransom is very tight when one can not start right away and the ransom is doubled - Trader has to walk 28 times, ~2 Minutes per direction plus 30 seconds loading in Trading Post, so it takes ~2h to deliver the goods. I did not stop the time between the ransom calls, but maybe it should be increased a little bit, especially since the goods to be delivered are rare.

The maximum radius of the trader is 80 fields that means he has max 160 fields to walk. one field on flat terrain takes 0.8. Assuming it takes 0.9 seconds due to some uneven terrain this results in 144 seconds per walk. plus 30 is 174 for a complete cycle, this makes 4872 seconds for all cycles, which is 1,35 hours. So I think 3 Hours should be ok. However I increased the time to deliver the first wares from 20 min to 30 min.

  • In the goods settings, the coins are set to the values for single ransom, if player does not increase it when the ransom is doubled, the trader stops delivering. Since this is a new setup, maybe a hint is useful. Also building a second trading post does not help to speed things up since always only one Trader is on the walk.

I could do this or I could remove the economy setting completely making the trader deliver endless unless the player reduces the inputs in the trading post. As the delivered wares are helping the ally (he really gets them added to his HQ) it might be good to have this choice. I tend to remove it. What do you think?

  • Jundlina talks about the woods and that there are so much trees, thats directing in the wrong direction, with 3 woodcutters and only one forester wood is constantly a rare good in the beginning

I will generalise this to say: deliver what you could spare easiest. (in fact it might be gold and coal which get delivered first.

  • also iron is pretty far away from the harbor, it takes time to reach it

agreed, but it is reachable within 2 hours after the first trade has been made, which should be enough. I don't want to this to be easy. the time for constructing 3 ships in the first scenario is also tight, and you might not fulfil this in the first try.

  • after about 3:50h game time the Empire was defeated by the barbarians, before I was even able to start to train soldiers, even before I finished delivering the goods

that should not have happened. It seems the mission is still luck based, will investigate.

  • ~ 10 Minutes after the Empire is defeated, the Barbarians attack me, but I can't attack them (see screenshot)

that is intentional. you can't attack them because they would kill Jundlina in this case. but you should prepare to defend yourself, and delay their attacks until you have build the temple and Jundlina is back. Maybe I should spend a textbox to explain this.

  • sometimes (when loading a saved game) I get an Error Message "Lua Coroutine failed" (see screenshot)

was a typo, corrected it.

Cheers Waldecker


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waldecker
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Joined: 2020-05-31, 21:15
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Posted at: 2022-04-29, 15:08

hessenfarmer wrote:

waldecker wrote:

Thanks for the fixes.

A few more observations

  • Time to deliver the ransom is very tight when one can not start right away and the ransom is doubled - Trader has to walk 28 times, ~2 Minutes per direction plus 30 seconds loading in Trading Post, so it takes ~2h to deliver the goods. I did not stop the time between the ransom calls, but maybe it should be increased a little bit, especially since the goods to be delivered are rare.

The maximum radius of the trader is 80 fields that means he has max 160 fields to walk. one field on flat terrain takes 0.8. Assuming it takes 0.9 seconds due to some uneven terrain this results in 144 seconds per walk. plus 30 is 174 for a complete cycle, this makes 4872 seconds for all cycles, which is 1,35 hours. So I think 3 Hours should be ok. However I increased the time to deliver the first wares from 20 min to 30 min.

I think that should give the player the time to build the environment up

  • In the goods settings, the coins are set to the values for single ransom, if player does not increase it when the ransom is doubled, the trader stops delivering. Since this is a new setup, maybe a hint is useful. Also building a second trading post does not help to speed things up since always only one Trader is on the walk.

I could do this or I could remove the economy setting completely making the trader deliver endless unless the player reduces the inputs in the trading post. As the delivered wares are helping the ally (he really gets them added to his HQ) it might be good to have this choice. I tend to remove it. What do you think?

Removing it will most likely result in endless deliveries of goods not needed while required goods are not delivered, because the player has no way to keep track of what has been delivered so far. I would prefer a hint or an automated increase.

Cheers

Waldecker


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hessenfarmer
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Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16
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Posted at: 2022-04-29, 15:12

waldecker wrote:

Removing it will most likely result in endless deliveries of goods not needed while required goods are not delivered, because the player has no way to keep track of what has been delivered so far. I would prefer a hint or an automated increase.

he has the Possibility to see what has been delivered, as he can see the number of coins in the economy. However I will go the route of automatic settings then


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waldecker
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Joined: 2020-05-31, 21:15
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Posted at: 2022-04-29, 21:44
  • Time to deliver the ransom is very tight when one can not start right away and the ransom is doubled - Trader has to walk 28 times, ~2 Minutes per direction plus 30 seconds loading in Trading Post, so it takes ~2h to deliver the goods. I did not stop the time between the ransom calls, but maybe it should be increased a little bit, especially since the goods to be delivered are rare.

The maximum radius of the trader is 80 fields that means he has max 160 fields to walk. one field on flat terrain takes 0.8. Assuming it takes 0.9 seconds due to some uneven terrain this results in 144 seconds per walk. plus 30 is 174 for a complete cycle, this makes 4872 seconds for all cycles, which is 1,35 hours. So I think 3 Hours should be ok. However I increased the time to deliver the first wares from 20 min to 30 min.

Not sure about the numbers here. As you can see in the screenshots, the Trader does not reach his goal within 105 seconds, so my guess is he needs ~1.6 sec per field


Attachment: Trader.zip (3.2 MB)

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2022-04-29, 23:14

waldecker wrote:

  • Time to deliver the ransom is very tight when one can not start right away and the ransom is doubled - Trader has to walk 28 times, ~2 Minutes per direction plus 30 seconds loading in Trading Post, so it takes ~2h to deliver the goods. I did not stop the time between the ransom calls, but maybe it should be increased a little bit, especially since the goods to be delivered are rare.

The maximum radius of the trader is 80 fields that means he has max 160 fields to walk. one field on flat terrain takes 0.8. Assuming it takes 0.9 seconds due to some uneven terrain this results in 144 seconds per walk. plus 30 is 174 for a complete cycle, this makes 4872 seconds for all cycles, which is 1,35 hours. So I think 3 Hours should be ok. However I increased the time to deliver the first wares from 20 min to 30 min.

Not sure about the numbers here. As you can see in the screenshots, the Trader does not reach his goal within 105 seconds, so my guess is he needs ~1.6 sec per field

Ups you are right I did not look it up again and got it wrong it is not 0.8 but 1.8 per field which makes a major difference of course. rersulting in a total delivery time of 2.47 hours. So I think I should increase the delivery time to 3.5 hours. Thanks for correcting me.


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Alasia
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Joined: 2020-04-26, 05:07
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Posted at: 2022-04-30, 06:37

Hi Hessenfarmer, I also tried playtesting, but I think I did not get the latest one because there are aspects referred to above I did not get in my game.

What's the best way to get the current version?


(formerly alasiaxx)

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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2022-04-30, 10:26

Alasia wrote:

Hi Hessenfarmer, I also tried playtesting, but I think I did not get the latest one because there are aspects referred to above I did not get in my game.

What's the best way to get the current version?

well, the best way is to clone the master repo from github, switch to the atlanteans02 branch and pull the latest version. But you could download the repo as zip and just copy the folder data and use it with a actual development build with the datadir= option while starting from the comandline. For the latter you have to do this evry time I push a fix, which unfortunately happened a lot in the past due to my errors found by waldecker.


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