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Topic: WideLands in Europe

Adamant
Joined: 2012-10-11, 16:21
Posts: 180
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Widelands-Forum-Junkie
Location: Alemania
Posted at: 2013-12-27, 00:23

There are several linugual SubFora in WideLands which deal well with Spread of Languages due to History of Colonization resp aside of there are many People speaking Russia and Chinese while both stopped Colonization since ... one did for more than one Century. So there are only Languages supported in Forum with broad History in Colonization and thus effected Distribution of Language .. aside of one Country that failed in that Discipline. However, even I did not often read (or am not able to read/understand one half of Languages) from Erupean Scope I see mainly western Europe Languages represented and anyway feel Italic missing. When see at Portugual I think Spain and Portuguese can each other understand as wel as German and Austrian .. better don't invite both into same Forum? No, kiddin, think we should consider to ask Spain if they can deal well with Protugual Language and add second Flag to that Forum. When looking North, I note mainly Sweden and Norwegen as larger territorail Share there and wonder if their Languages are close enough to found a Northern SubForum for them. When looking eastern Europe I see Relations between their Language but they are afaik diff like German and Dutch. Due to History their exist a common Past where Russian where their common Language cross the Borders, so I would consider to add Russian as Lang to offer Eastern Europe that Way common Place in WideLands while can not guess what does that Language nowadays mean to them as past political Bind to have to use that Language went together with something other and guess that People won't like to take that Language for AUX even it could technically work fine. Aside of that it's odd for that strong west-eastern cultural Europe Bindings could or better shoul or even have to offer them as well their Language specific Fora and how much these are? If I ask to spent for Italy a Fora I don't find a substancial Argument to don't do same for Polia as another large Country in Europe next to Germany. So if I here address Issues in large Range and Scope, could we take any that Language into Fora-Pool while consider Support for more Languages as well. Curiously I simply starts calcualting Population of Scandinavia to reason Forum for them while for Polia I feel almost I have to sorry about even I don't know any substancial Reason why I should have to sorry.. well... why are all supported Fora only Westen Europe?? :D Can we throw Iberia and Scandinavia each into their single Pot resp would their intended Users feel comfortable with or would they think about as Kind of useless Activity as they can not understand each other this Time due to Language? For Example I would feel alright with Dutch Posts in common german-anglistic SubForum (well, all same LAnguage-Family, same like French, Italy Spain and Portuagual) but that does not mean I could without learning understand really Dutch even I would like to try. So that's the Point why I ask to consider to do such for Iberia Scandinavia instead. More precisely: would such SubFora for Scandinavia and Iberia mean same like explained for Dutch, German and English? And would it that mean, does that also mean we should not resp you can easier give than take and would Scandinavian be happy about while Spainic Guys could feel lesser comfortable with than before?

Actually I got Idea that Fora for France and Spain are well visited resp accepted from Community. Aside of all Web-Space what would that mean for Administration and Moderation? IIRC there were in Past several Members from ITaly which contributed to at least to Source while the Translations for Game proofes that WideLands could support all Kind of Languages in SubFora.

So that's a large Cake and now I ask for first just for Italy, Iberia and Scandinavia. For BeneLux I would like ask as well but in last Decade Past seems to got somewhat wired .. but should not care about Media and Politics as People self are better resistent against Nonsense and perhaps could like that Idea much better than walking on Street to express something Media and Politics fail to explain or translate into national News. So it sounds somewhat curious but perhaps Benelux-SubForum could be surprisingly a good Idea aside of I don't have an Idea how many WL-Players there could utilize that Supply. So I ask for any of these Pieces from Cake without special Focus but Idea to go broader than as already is, what does not mean that more won't be wrong thus.

Edited: 2013-12-27, 00:37

Ivan the Terrible is dead .. Genghis Khan is dead .. and I do not feel well, too.

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hjd
Joined: 2011-06-12, 20:24
Posts: 164
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At home in WL-forums
Location: bugs.launchpad.net/widelands
Posted at: 2013-12-27, 19:11

My take on this (in more general terms) is that new subforums will be created when there seem to be a need for them. I suspect most users who don't find a subforum for their particular language will either write a post in English, try the chat (IRC channel) or post it anyways.

Actually I got Idea that Fora for France and Spain are well visited resp accepted from Community.

If you look at them, the French and Spanish subforums currently contain 9 and 14 threads, respectively. And some of the oldest posts there are from 2009, so while they seem to be in use, it appears to be infrequent.

If we suddenly get an increase in posts submitted in for instance Japanese we could of course consider creating a new subforum for these users. However, I don't see an immediate need to have them in place just in case.

Actually, without any content these subforums might work against their purpose. If I visited a new site and I saw dozens of subforums where each contain little to no posts, I would assume it was a bit chaotically organized and seldom people posted anything there.

I do see the value of having dedicated subforums for other languages, which can be useful for several reasons. Though I don't think we should create a bunch if there doesn't seem to be a need for one.

(As digression, looking a Launchpad, the languages currently 100% translated are: Dutch, French, German, Italian, Polish, Slovak. Of these only German and French have dedicated subforums. This is just guessing though, but I would assume the people most interested in new subforums would be these where Widelands can be played without any English at all. So if we would be getting any requests, I assume the would come from these languages.)


Ships!

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Adamant
Joined: 2012-10-11, 16:21
Posts: 180
Ranking
Widelands-Forum-Junkie
Location: Alemania
Posted at: 2013-12-28, 09:02

hjd wrote:

My take on this (in more general terms) is that new subforums will be created when there seem to be a need for them. I suspect most users who don't find a subforum for their particular language will either write a post in English, try the chat (IRC channel) or post it anyways.

Actually I got Idea that Fora for France and Spain are well visited resp accepted from Community.

If you look at them, the French and Spanish subforums currently contain 9 and 14 threads, respectively. And some of the oldest posts there are from 2009, so while they seem to be in use, it appears to be infrequent.

If we suddenly get an increase in posts submitted in for instance Japanese we could of course consider creating a new subforum for these users. However, I don't see an immediate need to have them in place just in case.

Actually, without any content these subforums might work against their purpose. If I visited a new site and I saw dozens of subforums where each contain little to no posts, I would assume it was a bit chaotically organized and seldom people posted anything there.

I do see the value of having dedicated subforums for other languages, which can be useful for several reasons. Though I don't think we should create a bunch if there doesn't seem to be a need for one.

(As digression, looking a Launchpad, the languages currently 100% translated are: Dutch, French, German, Italian, Polish, Slovak. Of these only German and French have dedicated subforums. This is just guessing though, but I would assume the people most interested in new subforums would be these where Widelands can be played without any English at all. So if we would be getting any requests, I assume the would come from these languages.)

How about providing DynDNS-like Url eg like Wikepdia does: fr.widelands.org or better widelands.fr due to Non-English-trained get pale when think to enter wrong unreadable Site which does not carry TopLevelDoamain of own Country resp FrontSite does not show Flag to select Language. Sure we all could, sure - but we don't and we may wonder why or if we have to care about while I argue for arriving Users and that's the big Point here. I don't thinkt that People that eat daily Buguette like lesser to play WideLands than this who eat each Sausages. So your Argument does IMO point into similar Direction of better multilingual Support like here examplary shown by selectable NationFlag. Nevertheless I don't focus on specific European Countries but that Continent till Ural. I don't think that each Dialect needs its own Forum but eg BeneLux does afaik talk france, dutch and dow.. flammic? Sadly Languages have no Flags but Countries and also often multiple Languages. Rational would be to take Language-Flags here. Matter is worth to get investigated some more. EG we could use Union-Jack as Flag to point to Language-Menu where Things are properly supplied to select quickly native Language. I think Geographic Map is best inclusive NationFlags while highiting selected Language-Region and thus explain btw Forum does not deal with Nation-Issues but Language-Issues.

Resume: you said examplary France does not utilize their Language according SubForum (as some may expect - I factor in here very grand Nation-Issues) while I said that People in France don't play lesser than Britain or Germans - so what could be Reason for? One Reason I guessed is about People which are not trained to commuicate in English feel uncomfortable with Sites which does not appear in native Language. Happily Net 5.0 solved that Matter and we could use exisiting Meanings and Techniques to localize FrontPage to do not distract those which feel unsure when encountering Site and don't see their native Lang first. So I evaluate your Argument as Argument that there is Need and ROI from making Site more international by more localized.

I think another Reason that the German and English Section are so large is due to that Origins of WL and broad Utilization of English as International Language inclusive their better Support in this Forum and factoring in Amount of Time this Site exist and related to exponential Issues of Sharing its URL caused that today the language-specific Sections are not that balanced like we talk about to continue resp enforce reasonable their exisiting Support. That's not a Critique due to Site-Crew did surely their best but that does not mean that their Support for specific Languages were same well. However, this unbalanced Utilization tells me we can try do make Support better. BTW I don't speak any other Language so fine like English excepted my Native German and therefore would just look at their Forum-States of Threads and Posts but won't really try to read them but to look for KeyWords to get an Idea what Topics care them. Found btw France Thread with someone asking why there is no Site resp URL with France TLD. First thought about Grand Nation but perhaps he did simply expect to get friendly fr-URL for WideLands or he did not now there is afaik no other France WL-Site due to he did not make any. Sadly sadly sadly my France is worse that I was not able to explain him that while wondering if the Grand Issue is Factor there. However, I don't care about Grand (sorry, Grandpa, just kiddin) but addressed here same Matter partial reverese Dirction to add more Languages and increase Support for. I think he was up about the TLD only! (will not ask him and talk about Grand with him. The Truth is anywhere out there I read in X-Files or was it X-Factor? mysterious but I don't care about..))

What do you think could be Reason that SubFora for Spain and France are lesser well utlized than those of DE/UK? What does it take to get these URLs? Would mean mostly just boring Money to buy them. When visiting WL-Site it similated somewhat with a Wikipedia-Article not by Style but Amount of Text. FrontPage is here also MainPAge. I think that Matters are worth to get discussed as User-Language-Profile is unbalanced and what we do better for EN/DE we could consider to do also for ES/FR.

First Idea is to hire academic Translator for foreign Languages but don't know how to omit to pay him. I would insted start Kind of Poll of Translator-Crew indpendent from Language (and concrete Need) if those personally would like to a Job like that to get statistic Number of X Translators of total Z Translators would resp would not do such Kind of Job due to arbitrary Reasons while ther I would like to know due to missing Interest into that Task, missing Time or due to they prefer to do something as past WorkLoad resp Contribution is large enough to do somethong other than WL in SpareTime. (Way of there is a Life after Work or Hobby and that's valid Excuse for denying or urgend Call for Help .. we will memorize that without thinking bad about.) Sure would concrete Numbers be important when advanced Support shoud get realized but for rough Calculation and what generel Interest into that new Kind of Task exist. Sure it's Fun to push the weak Users .. I remind to have read Quote where someone pleased to get ChannelOperater. Answer was: we made already one Time an Austrian to our Operator and were not glad about. Well, I want effectively want to say it does at least no exclusvie contain Fun but means also Work. So don't think I would think we can easily hire our Translators. MY Feeling is I do not risk anything when I would offer to mod any Forum but due to Safety I refuse self given Offer to explain the Frances how their Language gets correct spelled .. even it would be a really great Fun. No, I don't have Time. (ask me later.. first: there are so many Letters in your Words you never speak .. simply remove them! Thus you can safe about 90% of Letter and Time. I know that Word was for real a cheaty Sentence!)

Interested about other Arguments. For special Readers: Words above were arranged to express a real exisiting Meaning and are not Product of Linuguar-Algorithm. When I need to add Pseudo-Context than I would try Lirum epsum instead.

Add: In Context of Language-Famalies Languages DE Dutch and English have a common Past resp also with LowGerman and heard that these share common Roots while the Swedish regin in MiddleEurope. In that Context is Old Swedish the Northern Analog of Origin of the Languages there like Latin in SouthEurope. Before the Greek successed in SeaFaring and Trade and with or without Convention there existed Need for international Traders to communicate and that Time Greek sinfluenced the Europe Languages. About the Languages Eastern I don't know much but that Atilla cam from East and pushed fleeing Volks into the West perhaps coming from resp bringing with another Language-Family. I am not sure about Polnish and for Rumania I know for sure its strong Relation with Latin but nevertheless also Polnish have strong Similarities with the Languages of Yougos, Slawes and also Russia. Would also like without Competence Ukraine into that Language-Pot while knowing they got serious Trouble to understand the other Languages (at least in my Ears they sound related) but when compare Italic, Spanish and Franceseis, then I can easiliy understand that these People won't feel so comfortable like Germans, Austrian and large Share of Switzer when put into same Language-Forum. Interestingly I can better understand an Austrian than someone who speaks Bavarian Dialect .. perhaps I would ask him to translate that into German but won't feel uncomfortable with in most Cases. As long as Bavaria is not Member of European Union (there are worse Vioations agains Expression-Asthetic but EU started afaik already Talks with them ... of course without Commitment) we could put them with Turkey in same Excote-SubForum. All Man aggree with that? face-smile.png Yoyo, I feel somebody could feel bothered about - where are you from?

Please for FeedBack exclude the difiicult Bavaria-Quation - for political Corectness! (Hi to Bavaria, btw. May next Year a Borussia pass your Mountains? Sure you would invite me to, no Question. ;))

Edited: 2013-12-28, 09:04

Ivan the Terrible is dead .. Genghis Khan is dead .. and I do not feel well, too.

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