Polls

Best Build 21 Screenshot

Log in to vote!

Currently Online

Latest Posts

Topic: alternate graphics

BjornKeks
Joined: 2013-05-22, 18:33
Posts: 29
Ranking
Pry about Widelands
Location: Germany near Frankfurt
Posted at: 2013-05-31, 10:26

Hello I just love the game and like to help making it prettier.

I created some graphics already and made a simple little webpage for those of you, who are interested in using them.

Yes, I know, I could just post them here, but I don't want to be a bother to those, who created the original graphics...

The webpage: derkex.eu

I'll post here every time I updated the website and with it the graphics.

Please feel free to tell me your opinion about my graphics.

The most recent graphics are from the 30th of May:

New user-interface icons. They are bold and golden, which matches the wooden windows quite nicely face-smile.png

New ground textures for Greenland. There will be more to come...

Edited: 2013-05-31, 10:51

Lieber einen Lebkuchen, als einen toten Keks!

Top Quote
Adamant
Joined: 2012-10-11, 16:21
Posts: 180
Ranking
Widelands-Forum-Junkie
Location: Alemania
Posted at: 2013-05-31, 15:24

Hi Knäcke! Ich did look right now the Pics and can't stay to check out the new Terrain-Textures. You did anyway kill my actual TODO-Item for this Day (or simplified it ... well, that sounds better). Welcome, Björn! Btw: the Pages of your small Site are labeled as "unknown Document" in my Browser's Tabs. I suggest to change that as my first Idea was something about E404 about and considered to close them therefore.

There exist an Approach to smooth the Borders of a Tile called "Tile-Transition". Assuming a Border of two Tiles with different Terrain (and thus clearly different Textures) a Set of Transition-Texture-Images exist which get added to a Tile beyond its Border on the adjectent (Term?) Tile. Eg. there is a Grass-Tile next to a Desert-Tile. Instead a clear BorderLine exist a Transition-Part which let the Grass "grow" over the Border avoidung viusally a linear Cut of Terrain/Texture. I did not check out how a generic RuleSet could look like to determine such Things by a simple Number-Value or any other simple DataSet. (A Transition-Combination-Table with 16X16 SubTables for 6 Directions doesn't look parctical managable to me). However, aside of technical Aspects the possible Success of such a Mechanic looks fine resp much better than the linear Texture-Borders. I think a simple Number for Height of Floor-Vegetation (how tall the Grass grows) could be usefull here. Whatever generic RuleSet get designed, it's reasonable to give a Map-Designer Fredom to redefine the Transition-Rule on the Map. Eg you place a Destert-TriAngle inside a Grass-LandScape you could want to have the Sand-Spot growing inside the Grass-Area around or reverse the Grass growing into the Sand-Spot. A generic RuleSet can't solve all favor Objectives of a Map-Designer as he could want that for different Spots in a different Way, eg customized for each single Side of the TriAngle. However, any stupid RuleSet returns probably better Results than "LinearCut-Transition". So my Point is, aside I don't know what Cheer Transitions may get, can you, BK, create such Transitions to get a artistic Work to check out visually the potential ROI of NonLinear-TileTexture-Transition (NLT3). With a ScreenShot and an Image-Programm it's probably rather simple to create MockUps to see new Appearance of a Map. Now I will check out your Terrain-Textures in the Game as I'm really currious how they look like.
Thank you a Lot already right now.

Can you create a golden Cursor-Icon in the Sense of they are discussed in this Thread: http://wl.widelands.org/forum/topic/1174/?page=1 It would clearly the Glove of the Golden Knight. (RIP) face-smile.png


Ivan the Terrible is dead .. Genghis Khan is dead .. and I do not feel well, too.

Top Quote
Adamant
Joined: 2012-10-11, 16:21
Posts: 180
Ranking
Widelands-Forum-Junkie
Location: Alemania
Posted at: 2013-05-31, 17:31

I try to give you in this Post my personal FeedBack resp Critique to your new Icons. First OverAll-Critique: they look rather fine. (Critique does not imply it have to be negative) At second Look I found several smaller Points which may partially very personal to my Interpretation what doesn't mean I'm not right with even my Interpretation is not defined generic eg as ISO or something like.

I try to cover all (I can find quickly). Your Icons look golden but I miss as Detail some Colors for Details. Eg. you made the Save-Icon rather fine but you take the Color Green for the Arrow. I won't take Green due to overwrting a previous SaveGame is destructive and thus the whole Action potentially destructive and therefore I would not raise Code Green for "hit Button without any Care". It's also not always destructive and therefore an Argument to not use Code Red instead, may be, and then I would advise to use Code Yellow for "Attention". As I am not sure about I suggest either Code Red OR Code Yellow but for sure not Code Green. I guess ISO say nothing about. face-smile.png

All in all your Icons look somewhat monochrom (well, they are all golden) and additional colored Details even if not necessary by Meaning would make them nicer. Eg the Icon for Statistic could profite from colored Bars (hmmm...red,yellow,green?). I suggest to keep Gold as dominant Color but pure Gold is harmful to their Character (we know all that Phenomen). I wonder if that Bars colored totally into RGB would keep Gold as dominant Color. May be that golden Bars need just partially such colored Spots at the Top to indicate just a DIFF(erence to a Normal) as green OverSize and reddish UnderSize .. thus much lesser Area/Color but colorful Details which mean not totally golden. I discuss other Icons with lesser Details but point to the Thoughts/Points above to factor in (not to much and not to less but always right and fine (...)). Btw polishing your Icons is polishing Gold and that's fun. face-wink.png

  • Exit-Game-Icon: Destructive: vertical Bar red
  • Sound-Options: NonDestructive: well known Symbol is a GradingKey. Even that Button is still totally literal descibed I suggest to create a new first Icon for and guess Support by Code may happen quickly.

  • statisitc>General Icon Winner-Pokal ("first Place")- The selected Color to draw the '1' is dark and looks similar like the BackGround. A real Pokal often use Color Silver for Contrast as noble Color. Perhaps keep that in Mind as (Candidate for a) principal neutral Contrast-Color to Gold. Copper-Color may be an Alternative to Silver.

  • WareStatisitic Gold is the best, sure, but I doubt Gold is suited perfect to indicate organic Objects like Wood or Foods. If it's not a Bird you can put a golden Cage around better keep to natural looking Things and .. well, I remind a Kind of Apple called "golden Delicious" but it doesn't look gold-metallic but yellow/green.

  • MiniMap/Minimalistic WindRose - I would utilize the Color-Scheme used in Physics for Orientation of a Magnetic Field to determine which Pol is (actually) green resp red and color both Directions in that Way on the Icon. If we assume a real Compass-Needle is colored that Way and the red Side turns to north and we know equal Polarities repell and inverse Polarities attract than we can paint the N for North green resp South with the complementary Color. The Green of North is IMO sadly to much green (it suck my eyes to much if I look at .. or was it reddish red what sucked my View?) and suggest to make it darker (as I don't have to consider if I need Green or Red to select right Perspective). However, I expect that both magnetic-complementary Colors the WindRose looks better and the green compensate the alerting Meaning of Red which let me consider if it is a good Idea to press the Button with the red Symbol without rethinking what I'm doing now. The WindRose resp Compass relates to Orientation and Navigation but I wonder if a Globe is not a better Alternative as Orientations have no variable Meaning here (north is always top side and reverse) but a changed Zoom/Detail-Level resp a larger/total OverView of the Map is the significant Point. Perhaps take better a Symbol of a Globe for like here:

  • Building-Statistic: I suggest to use the "Number n" or the greek Sigma (looks similar like 'E' but it's a Sigma (S) not an Epsilon or Eta) like used in Math to Express "Sum" (of multiple Elements). WareHouse is about storing Wares (or Goods) and those are often stored inside Crates which often don't tell what is inside but a small Paper with a Note what is inside. If we understand the Crate as Symbol for Storage we can well memorize what that Symbol promise. At present there are 4 SubIcons (and I wonder why Houses are amoung and why it's red .. perhaps it mean "no Buildings"??) however, these SubIcons have little Meaning for the Player as at least me won't multiple Times identify these small SubIcons to determine what is inside but memorize it as "Icon with 4 SubIcons (which one is a red House)". I doubt at Present the red House is suited as SubIcon but for sure it serve here in the Role of the Color-Spot to make the Icon less monochrom. Nevertheless I would prefer if it have just a red Roof. Btw: as Metallic Color is Copper always fine for Green as well known oxidated Copper looks green (and thus aged). Found that the reddish Object represent the WareHouse. For my Taste a small SubFrame (golden or reddish) around the a golden House as single SubFrame would match more my visual/symbolic Interpretation of that Symbol. However, the Dialog of WareHouse-Statistics contains 4 Tabs. I would prefer those Tabs as Items inside the Root-Statistic-Dialog. If we understand the (reddish) House as Symbol for "specific to (this) WareHouse" I wonder what Icon we could use to represent the whole .... whole what? Player? Tribe? I would consider to rename Tribe into Folk while a Tribe may concerns to a single Folk. If I am allowed to rename Things here to express them reasonable I ask here for a Symbol for Tribe while that what was Tribe before and here now called Folk have little Meaning for the Players as they will probably little look for Statistic how their Folk deal with that Map in Competition with other Folks. So what 's about that here is that I please you to invent a Symbol for the Player's Tribe (and gladly also Folk for the 3 "Tribes" Emeprials, Barbarians, Atlanteans). The adequate Icon for Total-Raning would theoretically be an Earth-Globe which is normally easy to identify (reps to distinguish from a Ball). Due to experienced Problems with Emperials with Resource Marble I see a practical Reason to adapt Folk as Scope for the Statistic-Table as I would in a Game ask my self "how do the other Emperials deal with Marble in this Game/Map?" to guess what Trouble they have.

Not directly an Icon but would you like to create a golden Frame (like a CopperPlate) as new Theme for the Dialogs? (People normally call "Menu" or Windows or Boxes or or or). This Element is most significant to that what is called GUI-Theme for an App or OS. As I'm not best in ArtWork I would try to goldenize the present Theme to have a golden Derivate and would wonder while playing which on I like more: cold shiny Gold or warm dull Wood.

Other "Materials" I would like to see for Theme (it doesn't cost anything to me to wish them face-wink.png are Marble, Black Iron, Red Iron, CupperRed and PearlWhite. These Materials are IMO suited to express/demonstrate Trr..Folk-Characteristics and eg Emperials could have Marble-Theme while Barbarians have BlackIron-Theme - Atlanteans I don't know as PearlWhite is perhaps to close to Marble. I don't argue here strictly for Folk-Themes but for Theme-Diversity and ask how to utilize them (I did once thought about a Palace as Super-HQ and there I would prefer any noble Theme like Gold to express the Exclusivity of that Building) and gave the Folk-Theme just as arbitrary Example for Theme-Utilization. However, also just with fine new Gold-Theme I won't like to drop old Wood-Theme but keep it for extended Application of Themes to Folk/Age/Building/still_dunno.

I did not find more Icons but ask if you could create a golden Font for the Game as the Icon looks fine and now the Font relatively ugly ... face-grin.png and silver Font and Cupper-Font and GummiBear-Font etc. edit Coal/Carbon/Grapgite is another generic Color I like face-smile.png

I will take the new Icons and guess without direct Comparision they look much better (or the new taste me always better but that property would be new to me ;). The brief Point about your Icons is if you eg take a golden Dragon please make his Eyes red like a Ruby to avoid monochromatic Icons and basic Color-Codes (People understand directly due to physiologicla Matters are Green doesn't bit, red bits and yellow means be carefully - even dumbest understand intuitive or are color-blind).

I will use your Icons and watch out for Updates. Before other Metallic Themes follow I would prefer a Golden Font. The Latin Term for Gold is iirc Aurum. Well, may be I like the new Icons. face-wink.png

Edited: 2013-05-31, 18:37

Ivan the Terrible is dead .. Genghis Khan is dead .. and I do not feel well, too.

Top Quote
BjornKeks
Joined: 2013-05-22, 18:33
Posts: 29
Ranking
Pry about Widelands
Location: Germany near Frankfurt
Posted at: 2013-05-31, 18:43

Ja danke erst mal für die umfangreiche Antwort!

My biggest problem with the textures is, that the game slashes the 64x64 in triangles... I would like to do nicer textures, but because of the random slashing it's quite impossible. If the game would only use the 64x64 without the slashing, I could make much smoother transitions, between the different grass and mountain pngs. In other words: single triangles are not allowed to have a texture, only pairs. Even better would be a "function" to insert transition textures for blending from grass to beach for example. I would love to do those. It would really enhance the appearance of the game. But I have no clue about the coding, I'm just a designer. (the confs are not that hard to understand, but the rest won't get to me). The current border between the terrains looks awful... like you said... where can I find this "Tile-Transition" you were talking about?

To the icons... Thanks again for your long critique. The main problem with the icons is, that they are simply to small. Thats why I decided to do them as simple as I could. Your color-code suggestions are a good point... after doing that many little pictures in a row, my mind went to standby and I ignored some things face-smile.png . But a thing you have to keep in mind is, that, due their tininess, I'm forced to work with clear contrasts... for example the "1" on the Winner-Pokal is a hole. Making it silver would make the "1" almost invisible. I wanted to do very simple, bold icons so their tininess doesn't matter. Thats also why everything is golden. You are absolutely right, that food for instance should be represented with something organic, but that would break the Bold and Golden code :). And if you break the code you break the harmony... I don't want to make the harmony cry... poor thing ;) The little red house stands for "warehouse" face-smile.png .

I'll look into making more Bold and Golden icons for the rest of the game. I must say, I really like the wood frames... they could be cleaner, but they are quite nice as they are.

New fonts... well thats a very very boring work... maybe some other time ;). I'll keep it in mind. I now try to make the mountain and bergwiese a bit prettier.

Schönen Abend noch ;).


Lieber einen Lebkuchen, als einen toten Keks!

Top Quote
BjornKeks
Joined: 2013-05-22, 18:33
Posts: 29
Ranking
Pry about Widelands
Location: Germany near Frankfurt
Posted at: 2013-05-31, 22:47

I added the mountain textures and bergwiese to the greenland texture download. Just visit derkex.eu for the download.


Lieber einen Lebkuchen, als einen toten Keks!

Top Quote
SirVer
Joined: 2009-02-19, 15:18
Posts: 1439
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: Germany - Munich
Posted at: 2013-06-01, 10:42

@Adamant: how fast can you type, dude? Your posts are never shorter than a thousand words it seems :). Either you can type super quick or you have too much time on your hands - if that is the case, how about learning blender and taking on chuck's legacy?

Hey BjornKeks! Welcome to the Widelands Forums.

Your work is really nice - I prefer the more pictogramic styles of buttons we have right now, but a unification of styles would do the game nothing but good. You could advertise your work a bit more by posting screenshots - also, we will need more graphics for the seafaring feature that Peter (Nasenbaer) has nearly finished in a branch and which will hit trunk any day now.


Top Quote
BjornKeks
Joined: 2013-05-22, 18:33
Posts: 29
Ranking
Pry about Widelands
Location: Germany near Frankfurt
Posted at: 2013-06-01, 15:58

Thanks@ SirVer

I tried to make some screenshots, but my ubuntu refuses to obey... If the pixelart-pictogramms were all done by the same person in the same style, they would also look better. Harmony is everything :). Say what you need in particular and I'll look into it.

I can't wait to send my little people out on the ocean :).

Right now I began to redo every building of the Atlanteans... my favorite tribe.


Lieber einen Lebkuchen, als einen toten Keks!

Top Quote
Adamant
Joined: 2012-10-11, 16:21
Posts: 180
Ranking
Widelands-Forum-Junkie
Location: Alemania
Posted at: 2013-06-01, 17:48

SirVer wrote: @Adamant: how fast can you type, dude? Your posts are never shorter than a thousand words it seems. Either you can type super quick or you have too much time on your hands

I get meanwhile somewhat used to the keyboard face-smile.png

  • if that is the case, how about learning blender and taking on chuck's legacy?

Hail to Chuck! I don't want to invest my Time in mastering Blender to archive Results in Days good Blenderian can do in Hours but do what I can do in Hours other need multiple Days and that's Informatic,Math,Physics,Structures,Analysis,... Summa sumarum all that what is essential also for Programming.

Hey BjornKeks! Welcome to the Widelands Forums. Your work is really nice - I prefer the more pictogramic styles of buttons we have right now but a unification of styles would do the game nothing but good. Supporting Cookie for ArtWork is no Problem but mastering Blender is something what require more Time, Effort and Patience (won't expect any useful for a Year face-smile.png I can spend. Supporting Cookie in ArtWork is another Matter and surely no Problem.

I will tomorrow compare resp review pictogramic icons and affirm that unification is rather reasonable as a player is likely to stick to that Icons he learned (firstly) and dislike to change as long as he have to read Icons to know what to find below each button. Have to read about pictogramic its nature and Pros as I can't identify by memory an obvious advantage from old icons. will ask for that matter some questions next time. however, if we assume none of both style is pictogramic better (but one is asthetic nicer) can we unify at another Standard? I remind several Icons are doubtless more intuitive due to they are common applied, eg the Switch-Off-Button is rather clear to all who know a TV with RC RemoteControl. It's perhaps not that pictogramic or it is very and it shows "THE" Switch from TopView - may be just another Pictogram - I like to discuss the Icons resp PictoGrams (Word denotes "Picture-Script"). I like Unification but even more the better Unification. Some Symbols of new Icons are IMO doubtless better, may be due to different Reasons - no Matter if the old Icons may have their specific Advantages as well - I would try to combine/fuse/any to get a better Result than those which exist. I take always the better. face-smile.png


Ivan the Terrible is dead .. Genghis Khan is dead .. and I do not feel well, too.

Top Quote
BjornKeks
Joined: 2013-05-22, 18:33
Posts: 29
Ranking
Pry about Widelands
Location: Germany near Frankfurt
Posted at: 2013-06-02, 01:32

Hi guys.

I may prefer my icons, but it would be no problem for me to make some 'official' icons for the game.

And about blender... today I've started with the buildings and I'm quite happy with the result. After I finished the Atlantean buildings, I'll post them for you. I only used a 3D software to get a very rogh ground-stucture and painted the rest with Photoshop. I think the painted buldings look much more natural and unique... but that is a matter of taste, I guess :).


Lieber einen Lebkuchen, als einen toten Keks!

Top Quote
SirVer
Joined: 2009-02-19, 15:18
Posts: 1439
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: Germany - Munich
Posted at: 2013-06-02, 12:46

Bjorn, I can understand that you like your 2d buildings better than the 3d models - it is easier to add in the exact touch you want into a 2d image. But we will never include such images into the game for the following reason. The buildings need to have the same style - if you mix the style of two artists, the difference is very apparent and destroys the harmonic image the game has while playing (we've been there). For that reason we decided to switch to a 3d modeler - this guarantees that all buildings look the same (because they are physically rendered the same), have the same angle and so on. When you make nicer buildings and move on in the future, we either have the option to never touch your 2d buildings again (this is likely not a real option at all face-smile.png ) or to overwrite them the next time some changes are made - in this case your work will be lost, which would be a shame.

tl;dr: if you want to improve on stuff that is available in 3d, like the buildings, animals, trees and so on, please use our blender workflow and stick to it. If you prefer to do 2d art - there is plenty to work on in Widelands as is. Of course, if you only want to change graphics around for your own pleasure, you can do whatever you want. But you will not impact Widelands much then - which would also be a shame, because we'd love to have better art face-smile.png


Top Quote