Latest Posts

Topic: Tribal Resource Signs

QCS

Joined: 2009-12-29, 22:47
Posts: 256
Ranking
Tribe Member
Posted at: 2012-04-27, 19:33

Currently my mind is wandering off and thinking of combining the build overlay for mines (the crossed tools) with the sign in case of 'high resources' instead of a crowned sign... and without those tools for 'low resources'. And of course an empty sign for 'no resources'.

Edit: Mhh, maybe not the best idea, one could mix up the meaning of the build overlay... but maybe in this manner, some indication of 'mine here, this is a perfect spot'.

Edited: 2012-04-27, 19:58

CMake is evil.

Top Quote
chuckw
Avatar
Topic Opener
Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23
Posts: 945
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: New York - USA
Posted at: 2012-04-27, 23:53

Assuming we do not change the size of the current graphics, there is not a lot that can be added to the 12x13 images short of some kind of animation which I am not sure is even supported for these signs. (I'll experiment with it, though.)

The image on the right is one possible approach using a single frame:
fulloption1

I have to admit that I don't really like it and would probably like it even less if the colors danced around the frame. face-smile.png Some other small indicator might be used, but I can't think of anything that would be intuitively considered as indicating a major resource deposit.

Comments?


I see little people.

Top Quote
QCS

Joined: 2009-12-29, 22:47
Posts: 256
Ranking
Tribe Member
Posted at: 2012-04-28, 10:39

Ok, I see... this is not really leading to anything. Thanks for trying anyway chuck face-wink.png I didn't know this was so constrained.

Two thoughts.

1) What if we made the sign a little larger (height) and maybe narrower, I guess this should also not block the view too much.

2) And what if we get rid of the sign completely and have the geologist just put some samples of the ore he found (or the dirt if he didn't find something useful) on the floor? He could make a small pile of coal or a small bucket of water on the ground, or a big pile of coal or two buckets of water? Or maybe not buckets but a hole in the ground where water collects in a little or a little larger pond?


CMake is evil.

Top Quote
chuckw
Avatar
Topic Opener
Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23
Posts: 945
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: New York - USA
Posted at: 2012-04-28, 23:02

QCS wrote: Ok, I see... this is not really leading to anything. Thanks for trying anyway chuck I didn't know this was so constrained.

It is only constrained by the current dimensions of the markers. We can certainly explore different sizes and dimensions.

Two thoughts. 1) What if we made the sign a little larger (height) and maybe narrower, I guess this should also not block the view too much. 2) And what if we get rid of the sign completely and have the geologist just put some samples of the ore he found (or the dirt if he didn't find something useful) on the floor? He could make a small pile of coal or a small bucket of water on the ground, or a big pile of coal or two buckets of water? Or maybe not buckets but a hole in the ground where water collects in a little or a little larger pond?

Your point #2 is certainly worth exploring.

Using the current 12x13 dimensions, I have been doing a lot of wheel spinning over the last day or two exploring different sign shapes, backgrounds, overlays, and symbols. Not much of practical use has resulted and none of it is much of an improvement over what we have already seen.

Let me take a moment here to list what I believe are the main objectives of this effort with the resource marker signs.

  • Accuracy - It should go without saying that they should indicate the type and relative amount of resource (i.e. great quantity/small quantity/nothing)
  • Easily Interpreted - They should be easily recognizable with a casual glance, not squinted over just to determine what they are supposed to be. In other words, they should not be a complex/"busy" image.
  • Identifiable with a tribe - They should be unique to the tribe of the surveyor who made the discovery. This is really the only NEW consideration in my estimation.

Where I am getting hung up is the tribal identity part. To comply with Easy Interpretation means we can't use the tribal coats of arms, or even the mine build help icon. Their use would only confuse these very small images and result in defeating all 3 of our main objectives.

I think we might pursue the use of player color in lieu of more complex imagery to help with tribal identity. Certainly we should portray tribal appropriate material when applicable, like crystal (Atl) v.s. marble (Emp) v.s. stone (Barb) for the same spot on a map depending on who makes the discovery.

I'll play with QCS's "sample pile" idea a little as well as exploring what might be possible with player color.

We have the stuff I have already shown to fall back on if necessary.

Meanwhile, please stay tuned. face-wink.png


I see little people.

Top Quote
fuchur

Joined: 2009-10-07, 14:01
Posts: 186
Ranking
Widelands-Forum-Junkie
Location: Germany
Posted at: 2012-04-29, 10:11

I think the current design of the markers is quite fine, only spotting the small amount of ressource is sometimes difficult. Maybe increasing the size of the markers would help a lot. 2 pixels should be sufficient. And this won't make them too big to get distracting.


Top Quote
renke

Joined: 2012-04-07, 16:47
Posts: 8
Ranking
Pry about Widelands
Posted at: 2012-04-29, 21:03

I like the triangle, but the highlighting makes it IMO worse - especially Empire's resources are hard to read.

Do we need stone as the sign material? Another typical color of the Empire would be the blueish of the roofs, maybe worth a try.


Top Quote
chuckw
Avatar
Topic Opener
Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23
Posts: 945
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: New York - USA
Posted at: 2012-04-30, 16:14

Thanks for your comments, fuchur and renke. I will work up samples of your suggestions.

Meanwhile, here is a shot at QCS's sample pile idea:

prop4

Here I have abandoned the tribal marker altogether and represent the resource of interest to the prospector who discovered it. Who cares if it was an atlantean or an imperial who discovered coal? I put a "pile of sand" background to improve contrast of the materials that would otherwise blend into the berg terrain. To help the marble, I will enlarge the sand pile. I deliberately enhanced the gold and iron with brighter highlights to assist their identification. It is not realistic, I know, but here I think realism should take a secondary role to ease of recognition.

EDIT: There is actually only one indicator for water in the game. I show two different examples here to illustrate QCS's concepts.

FYI - I did test the use of player color on the resource markers and have come to the discovery that it is currently not supported. But, again, who cares which player discovered the resources as long as a distinguishable indicator is there for all to see?

Comments are welcome. I intend to work up samples of fuchur's and renke's ideas and present a grand lineup to summarize what we have discussed to date.

Stay tuned. face-wink.png

Edited: 2012-04-30, 16:18

I see little people.

Top Quote
wl-zocker

Joined: 2011-12-30, 17:37
Posts: 495
Ranking
Tribe Member
Location: Germany
Posted at: 2012-04-30, 17:31

Great work, Chuck!

I like the new symbols, they are visible on the signs' new background. The only thing I do not like is the left water sign, it is just blue and nothing else.

I also like the difference crystal/raw stone/marble. It underlines the difference between the tribes.


"Only few people know how much one has to know in order to know how little one knows." - Werner Heisenberg

Top Quote
SirVer

Joined: 2009-02-19, 15:18
Posts: 1445
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: Germany - Munich
Posted at: 2012-05-02, 09:08

I like them as well. Only the water sign gives me some trouble: I agree that the left one is not very expressive - just a blue blob which's significance must be learned. And I think the water buckets might be identified as a ware laying around - I am not sure about this though. What about some stylized waves? Or a droplet?


Top Quote
chuckw
Avatar
Topic Opener
Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23
Posts: 945
Ranking
One Elder of Players
Location: New York - USA
Posted at: 2012-05-02, 16:47

Okay. As promised, here is something of a summary of what we've discussed so far:

sum

I have tried to organize them so we can reference a particular style by its coordinates, example: Empire-coal-2-B refers to the Empire resource sign for "coal" which has the vertical bar and the dark background. Got it? face-smile.png

Personally, my favorites are the resource sample piles with the "sandy" backgrounds (and the "A" water image). The sand should make them easy to spot and identify.

Of the signs, I personally favor the #2 version of both the "none", small amount and large amount resource signs with the "B" version of the Empire and Atlantean crystal signs.

How about you? Do you like the "piles" or the "signs" and which ones? Or have you a better idea or suggestions to improve on these?

Edited: 2012-05-02, 16:50

I see little people.

Top Quote