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Topic: Food preferences

simplypeachy

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Posted at: 2020-03-29, 23:01

I noticed that Atlantean mines prefer smoked fish over smoked meat. For this tribe, meat tends to be an easy and transient resource ("free", perhaps?) so would it not be better for smoked meat to take preference? As an example, the Empire buildings that consume food all prefer fish (free, easy to produce) before they move to using meat (eventually, more difficult/costly). The same goes for both the dungeon and labyrinth.

Using this logic, the Barbarian battle arena should instead prefer fish. The Frisians have a more nuanced food chain but it looks to me that meat is perhaps the easier ware to generate. Their tavern, drinking hall, training camp and training arena all currently prefer meat. Players more experienced with this tribe will be better placed to make comment for Frisians.


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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2020-03-29, 23:15

simplypeachy wrote:

I noticed that Atlantean mines prefer smoked fish over smoked meat. For this tribe, meat tends to be an easy and transient resource ("free", perhaps?)

It's not free, but limited.

so would it not be better for smoked meat to take preference?

I don't think so. Smoked meat is not so much needed in most buildings, but very useful in the labyrinth. So it's not that bad that it piles up everywhere else, because more is going to go to the labyrinth. But maybe this means that at least the labyrinth should prefer that ware over smoked fish...

As an example, the Empire buildings that consume food all prefer fish (free, easy to produce) before they move to using meat (eventually, more difficult/costly).

That's good for the empire, because meat might be expensive (piggery), so fish should always be preferred.

Using this logic, the Barbarian battle arena should instead prefer fish.

It does that already.

The Frisians have a more nuanced food chain but it looks to me that meat is perhaps the easier ware to generate. Their tavern, drinking hall, training camp and training arena all currently prefer meat. Players more experienced with this tribe will be better placed to make comment for Frisians.

For me it looks like Frisians are very similar to Atlanteans in that point (meat rather finite), but they don't have a "labyrinth" (no building which runs short of smoked fish/meat if only one type goes inside), so it might be okay like it is. After all, meat is cheap (from the hunters) or a trash product (from reindeer fur), while fish can be a little bit more expensive (from the aqua farms).

Though, I'm wondering if the order in taverns and trainingcamp shouldn't be changed (for example, smoked fish/meat is cheaper than bear/bread if you can use fishers, or even if you have to use aqua farms). The frisian food is a little bit complex...


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simplypeachy

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Posted at: 2020-03-30, 00:08

WorldSavior wrote:

simplypeachy wrote:

I noticed that Atlantean mines prefer smoked fish over smoked meat. For this tribe, meat tends to be an easy and transient resource ("free", perhaps?) It's not free, but limited.

By "free" I mean it costs less for the raw materials. Smoking costs the same, but or the raw food one builds a hunters hut then collects meat. No need to use spaces near water, build both fisher and breeder in the correct locations, etc. "Easy" is perhaps a more precise term.

so would it not be better for smoked meat to take preference?

I don't think so. Smoked meat is not so much needed in most buildings, but very useful in the labyrinth. So it's not that bad that it piles up everywhere else, because more is going to go to the labyrinth. But maybe this means that at least the labyrinth should prefer that ware over smoked fish...

So having looked at the labyrinth context help, and its behaviour, I've realised I have no idea how this building actually works. It states: For health and defence upgrades: 1x bread, 1x of fish or meat (plus equipment). For evade: 1x fish or meat.

But when I empty all food from it, the tooltip cycles between mentions of "bread" being missing for evade, and "2x fish and meat" for health.

As an example, the Empire buildings that consume food all prefer fish (free, easy to produce) before they move to using meat (eventually, more difficult/costly).

That's good for the empire, because meat might be expensive (piggery), so fish should always be preferred.

Agreed, the Empire buildings all seem to have logical food preferences.

Using this logic, the Barbarian battle arena should instead prefer fish.

It does that already.

Having tested this, the battle arena seems to consume meat before fish

Edit: formatting

Edited: 2020-03-30, 00:22

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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2020-03-30, 08:38

I'd actually prefer the fish or meat choice to be random or round robin. We have an open issue for this: https://github.com/widelands/widelands/issues/1934

Edited: 2020-03-30, 08:38

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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2020-03-30, 11:00

I'd actually prefer the fish or meat choice to be random or round robin.

+1


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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2020-03-30, 11:09

I'd actually prefer the fish or meat choice to be random or round robin.

-1

Food is of different costs, and that the food at the top is preferred allows intelligent systems.


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the-x
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Posted at: 2020-03-30, 12:11

I don't think so. Smoked meat is not so much needed in most buildings, but very useful in the labyrinth. So it's not that bad that it piles up everywhere else, because more is going to go to the labyrinth.

Yes, this is very balanced at the moment - i would not make a change here

Edited: 2020-03-30, 12:13

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WorldSavior
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Posted at: 2020-03-30, 12:38

Another argument against random/roundrobin is the AI. Currently, it lives well with taverns which prefer meat/fish over bread, for example.

the-x wrote:

I don't think so. Smoked meat is not so much needed in most buildings, but very useful in the labyrinth. So it's not that bad that it piles up everywhere else, because more is going to go to the labyrinth.

Yes, this is very balanced at the moment - i would not make a change here

Not even switching meat/fish in the Labyrinth?


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simplypeachy

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Posted at: 2020-03-30, 15:21

The Empire tavern is a good example of food preference settings - bread is available to make rations, but it's the most complex food in their chain and so is set as the last preference. If the food is set to random then expensive foods will be some times be consumed when simpler, more efficient food is available. Especially with large economies this will essentially waste wares and carrier time (causing unnecessary congestion) so IMO it would be even worse than the status quo.


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kaputtnik
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Posted at: 2020-03-30, 17:20

Hm... this discussion is for me a sort of 'high end' discussion. Can somebody please explain in detail what "building xy prefers ware xy" means?

From my understanding it works just like if a ware is not available, the worker/building uses the other ware to produce a thing. So i don't understand the term 'prefers' here.


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