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Topic: ... is missing or mine exhausted?

kaputtnik
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Posted at: 2015-08-25, 22:05

While playing i notice sometimes that i couldn't be sure if a mine is exhausted or if there is something missing. This is because often there is something missing AND the mine is exhausted. But if the message "Did not start mining because ... is missing" appears it looks like the mine isn't exhausted...

So it would be very comfortable to have something like a priority for such messages. If a mine is exhausted all other messages should not be shown.

What do you think?


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DragonAtma
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Posted at: 2015-08-26, 11:33

Remember, mines aren't really exhausted -- even when it claims they are, there's a 5% (or 10% for barbarian deeper mines, IIRC) chance of finding things (assuming there's enough food/booze). If the game lasted long enough (or you have a poor enough position for one ore type), EVERYWHERE available to you may be exhausted for iron (or coal or whatever).

Meanwhile, if the mines are missing food or booze, the chance of finding something there is 0% until they arrive -- which may be why the "This mine needs food" (or booze) message takes priority.


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einstein13
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Posted at: 2015-08-26, 11:42

Yes, but if your economy is not efficient enough, you will never know if your mines have poor (5-10%) or good (90%?) probability to mine resource. You will almost always have message like "need booze" or "need food". If there are some resources in the ground, it is good to know that the mine is not producing, because there is no food/booze. But if there is no resources (or hardly any) I would like to know that there is no resources underground.

Alternatively there should be a message "No resources and no food in the mine to produce ore" (or something like that). What do you think about it?


einstein13
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DragonAtma
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Posted at: 2015-08-26, 12:53

Hit S, it'll tell you the status of pretty much every building you own (even those being constructed). When I start a Widelands game, I always hit C (building names) and S (building status) at the start; I also enable building spaces and open up the map, as well as both general statistics and stock.

As for buildings missing both resources AND ore, I don't have a problem with a message that explains it has both problems.


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einstein13
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Posted at: 2015-08-26, 15:07

Don't be sarcastic here. I hit S, C & space every time. But that don't always help. In my late-game it doesn't matter. I have enough resources. But if that happened in middle- or early-game, can be everything. My mines have few food and no booze and 10% of productivity. The message is (or should be, don't know- didn't think about it in my games) "no food/ booze to start production". But the mines are exhausted.

How do you recognize exhausted mines? Maybe I am missing something?

I remember that I've destroyed few mines in my history, while their neighbours were exhausted.


einstein13
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kaputtnik
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Posted at: 2015-08-26, 18:22

I know that a mine never gets really exhausted. But it should be productive as it could be. So if food and beverage is brought to the miners they have to mine ore with a possibility about 100% and not about 10% (if the mine is exhausted).

I have often problems with empire granite mines. The miners need wine which is produced by vineyard -> grape -> winery -> wine . One vineyard isn't enough to produce so much grape to have so many wine to fill the stock in a granite mine, but one vineyard is enough to have so much wine to have enough granite to build f.e. another vineyard face-wink.png . So in this example i get often the message "Did not start mining because wine is missing" even if the mine is exhausted. I believe the exhausted message will come up, if the miners works (consume food and wine) and didn't find granite x times. In this case i have wine and food consumed without a benefit.

A combined message is a great idea.


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DragonAtma
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Posted at: 2015-08-26, 23:00

I wasn't being sarcastic; I've met people who missed easy things even after years of using a program/game/etc.

As for recognizing exhausted mines, it'll send a message when that happens (and, if you keep running it, it'll send another message from time to time) -- at which point you can just disable it to stop eating up your food. Sure, you could outright delete it, but then there's the risk of you wasting time building a new (and nearly useless) mine there.


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kaputtnik
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Posted at: 2015-08-27, 21:42

I created a bug as whishlist: https://bugs.launchpad.net/widelands/+bug/1489295


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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2015-08-31, 19:07

I think a combined message is a good idea. Thanks for filing the bug.


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