Topic: Constructing a trainingscamp
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teppo Topic Opener
Joined: 2012-01-30, 08:42
Posts: 423  Tribe Member |
Posted at: 2014-03-10, 09:59
There are some maps where barbarians are really strong already. With those particular maps, barbarians would benefit.
I'll invite you, if I happen to see you in the internet gaming lobby. You pick barbarians, I pick the map to be played 
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fk
Joined: 2013-07-30, 21:58
Posts: 151  At home in WL-forums |
Posted at: 2014-03-10, 11:59
It is too early to expect that there is going to be any change in the game, but if so, I will be glad to accept the challenge, provided that you will not pick the barbarians, and that I can veto the map.
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einstein13
Joined: 2013-07-28, 23:01
Posts: 1118  One Elder of Players Location: Poland |
Posted at: 2014-03-10, 15:09
Settlers II (gold edition) is possible to download from polish site: http://redakcja.pccentre.pl/bigm/download/Settlers-2-Gold-Edition.zip (Probably in Poland the law is not so strict :P) In my opinion the economy in the Widelands is not so far from the Settlers. Version II or I. Only some resources are added, but main game is the same: roads, planning, map shape. The major difference is for me that the game is 32-bit and has more possibilities (more units can be deployed, bigger maps) And to the toppic: You should calculate, how long the Bootcamp and Trainingscamp will build. I think, that it will not help the Barbarians to win. They will have more problems. Longer time and more resources to build one 10/10 soldier. Edited: 2014-03-10, 15:20
einstein13
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fk
Joined: 2013-07-30, 21:58
Posts: 151 At home in WL-forums |
Posted at: 2014-03-10, 16:17
S1 is also 32 bit (and large resolution, press v), but enough said.
That doesn't solve the problem, i.e. that the Barbarians would be stronger before they have built a trainingscamp and are the only ones with attack/defence points.
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SirVer
Joined: 2009-02-19, 14:18
Posts: 1445 One Elder of Players Location: Germany - Munich |
Posted at: 2014-03-10, 21:22
Isn't it interesting? We have a proposed change and some people believe it makes barbarians stronger (because they can train sooner), some believe it makes them weaker (because they need to enhance a trainingsbuilding before taking full advantage of it) and some believe the change is huge while others believe it will not make a big change. And all we have are arguments, since we have no idea how to come by data. We could implement the change and play a game or two, but this will still not make a big difference though, because other factors could dominate. We could let the AI play several games and even compare a barbarians tribe with the change against one without the change, but again, the other factors are probably a too big an influence to be really sure about what actually made the difference. How can we solve this problem in a more principled manner?
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einstein13
Joined: 2013-07-28, 23:01
Posts: 1118 One Elder of Players Location: Poland |
Posted at: 2014-03-10, 23:30
Probably most of us can't tell anything. For example my opinion is not so valuable- I usually don't play barbarians. We need a "voice of experts": some people playing only barbarians. They know if current game gives equal chances or not. Another thing is to find a map and players who are almost equal: one barbarian and second empire or atleanths. Sometimes one will win, and other time- the second player. Then we can give them a change for barbarians and see what happened then. But this experiment is a bit hard to make (long time of testing and how can we find people for that?) Also we can take a team of some barbarians and maybe empires ones einstein13
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teppo Topic Opener
Joined: 2012-01-30, 08:42
Posts: 423 Tribe Member |
Posted at: 2014-03-11, 03:00
That would be straightforward, I guess. With b19 still far enough, there would be time to roll back. Has testing like that ever resulted into a rollback?
A bit braindead, unless there is a way to loop AI-only games without human intervention, go get reasonable statistics.
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SirVer
Joined: 2009-02-19, 14:18
Posts: 1445 One Elder of Players Location: Germany - Munich |
Posted at: 2014-03-11, 06:08
no, never. And this is no surprise, we are usually none the wiser after implementing a change like this - there are too many other factors influencing how a game plays outs.
sure, there is a way. But it will not help much: running a full game takes at least 10 minutes and we ideally want thousand of samples to help against all the other influencing factors. But even then - how can you be sure that the AI has no systematic problems with a new change (for example figuring out when to upgrade a buildings is much harder then just building one).
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teppo Topic Opener
Joined: 2012-01-30, 08:42
Posts: 423 Tribe Member |
Posted at: 2014-03-11, 14:28
We seemingly have mixed opinions. Somebody should count the votes. I do not mind being in the opposition this time.
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einstein13
Joined: 2013-07-28, 23:01
Posts: 1118 One Elder of Players Location: Poland |
Posted at: 2014-03-11, 21:36
According to the discussion above: Against (2): fk (gold issue) einstein13 (time used to build trainingscamp) For (2): teppo (his idea) SirVer (would like to check it) Am I understanding it wrong? einstein13
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The test will be quicker and more reliable. There are some maps, where the fight can be done soon and there are possibilities to expand a lot.